CO alarm activation=ring fire brigade..?

C_Mababejive

Premier wrote: »

If your smoke alarm goes off, would you always call the fire brigade? :rolleyes:

No..you would check first if your wife had messed up your supper/tea and then check for signs of fire round the house. Such signs might be visible,audible and smellable.

BUT as CO is colourless and odourless you rely on a positive alarm and short of using specialist atmospheric analysis equipment,its the only sign you might have.

globalds

You could just open the window ..
It is not the presence of CO that is the problem ,but the concentration..

Also CO is being produced by something and will stop posing a threat as soon as the source of production is switched off .
Giving you plenty of time to contact somebody to check each piece of equipment and locate the cause and either fix it or condemn it .
Main problem I see is how to keep the house warm if you only have gas heating.

Fire_Fox

C_Mababejive wrote: »

OK i appreciate all the points made but just to condense my two main concerns..
If a CO alarm activates...thus indicating the possible presence of CO..,and leaving aside procedure etc,.....just having a logical discussion..would i be wrong in saying..

a)As the alarm indicates possible CO presence,it would be folly for the occupier to remain in a potentially hazardous atmosphere
b) As the alarm has activated indicating possible CO presence,it would be folly for the "gasman" to enter a potentially hazardous atmosphere and further,as an employee,he has a duty under gthe Health & Safety at Work Act not to endanger himself in such a way

c) The gasman apparantly doesnt carry any CO detection equipment so even when he left my home,he could not positively state that the potential hazard had been removed and that there was no detectable CO.

Carbon monoxide and smoke alarms are early warning systems - you aren't in mortal danger. Open the windows and the threat immediately dissipates; turn off the gas and it's there will be no further recurrence. The gasman won't be entering a hazardous environment if you can assure him the gas is off and the windows are open.

Biggles

Kenny_Powers wrote: »

Co2 is only present when either a cooker or boiler or other gas using device is on.

CO2 is present all the time and is harmless.

Ms_Chocaholic

Fire_Fox wrote: »

Carbon monoxide and smoke alarms are early warning systems - you aren't in mortal danger.

I agree, a typical example being when your smoke alarm goes off because you've burnt some toast .... you're not going to die of smoke inhalation in an instant

lemontart

the gas emergency engineer will isolate any appliance that may be causing the problem if he feels it necessary in their experience they will isolate the supply to the property thus eliminating the risk of any more co leaking into property. If you follow the expert advice to turn off all gas appliances, the gas supply and open windows you also reduce any co in property and make your self safe - all of which take you out of any danger that is the job of the gas emergency service not the fire bridgade who should they attend at best turn the gas off at the meter if you have not already done so and call us to attend simple proven facts,

Yes co is potentially fatal and a health risk but thankfully with education, law changes and common sense the numbers of incidents are falling. Whilst I by no way want to belittle the effects I do feel you are over thinking this and over reacting - just follow the advice given and you will be fine, If you have any concerns heatlh wise that you are being exposed or have been visit your gp and ask for a test for co in your blood,

This discussion is going around in circles and the advice does not alter as does your choice in the matter, I have looked at some of the websites for fire brigades and see no mention of advice on what do do in the event of a co alarm sounding which does rather indicate that it is not what they are their for.

Katie-Kat-Kins

OP you are overstating the danger from CO and misunderstanding how it behaves.

There is also confusion from some posters about CO and CO2. CO is carbon monoxide and very poisonous, this is what your alarm tests for. CO2 is carbon di oxide and present naturally in the atmostphere. It is generally not harmful to health and you breathe it in daily.

OP carbon monoxide is hazardous because it interferes with the way you absorb oxygen through the blood eventually leading to suffocation as your body is unable to absorb any oxygen at all. The first signs of poisoning are shortness of breath, then unconcsiousness then death. The effects are reversible though.

Carbon monoxide is not going to kill you unless you inhale a lot, this generally happens when you are in an enclosed environment, such as being shut in a car with the engine running in the garage or in a closed room infront of a fault gas fire. If the room is ventilated the CO will disperse into the wider atmosphere, react with pure oxygen and form CO2, doing you very little harm.

The first thing the man from the gas emergency helpline will do when he arrives is open the doors and windows. Thus ensuring that he isn't poisoned.

If you call the fire brigade for a CO alarm you will be wasting their very valuable time. CO is not explosive and only poisonous when inhaled in concentration. The advice above is all correct.

Gman0365

C_Mababejive wrote: »

OK i appreciate all the points made but just to condense my two main concerns..
If a CO alarm activates...thus indicating the possible presence of CO..,and leaving aside procedure etc,.....just having a logical discussion..would i be wrong in saying..

a)As the alarm indicates possible CO presence,it would be folly for the occupier to remain in a potentially hazardous atmosphere
b) As the alarm has activated indicating possible CO presence,it would be folly for the "gasman" to enter a potentially hazardous atmosphere and further,as an employee,he has a duty under gthe Health & Safety at Work Act not to endanger himself in such a way

c) The gasman apparently doesn't carry any CO detection equipment so even when he left my home,he could not positively state that the potential hazard had been removed and that there was no detectable CO.

a) When you phone the National Gas Emergency Service you will be provided with the exact safety advice that lemontart has stated. At no point does the finely scripted advice (approved by the HSE) advise the occupier to evacuate the property. It will be completely the choice of the occupier whether they decide to evacuate. The telephone operator should be advised if the occupier decides to evacuate the property.

b) I am a gas emergency service engineer. My job priorities (as agreed with the HSE) are to safeguard life and property. The first life I am to safeguard is my own. I would imagine that the fire service and police also have a similar responsibility for their own personal safety. I wear a personal atmosphere monitor (PAM) around my neck (in my breathing zone). This should act as an early warning sign in the presence of CO or natural gas. If my PAM activates the procedure is to evacuate the property - both myself and the occupants.

c) It is correct that gas emergency service engineers do not carry CO detection equipment (only natural gas detection equipment). When we attend site it is only our job to complete a visual inspection of the gas appliances. Where there are signs of spillage or incomplete combustion then the appliance is isolated and labelled "immediately dangerous". Where there is any concern on either the part of the occupier or the engineer as to the safety of an appliance then the appliance is turned of and labelled "concern for safety". In either circumstance the gas user is advised not to use the appliance and that a Gas Safe Registered engineer should inspect the appliance before it is used. Where necessary a gas emergency engineer has the right to enter any premises whilst carrying out his duties. This would include entering neighbouring properties where is suspected that CO or natural gas may be leaking.

I hope this helps to clarify things and that you are confident enough to phone the National Gas Emergency Service for all your gas emergency matters.

Also, I have attended jobs wheren the fire brigade are onsite as they have been called first by the occupier. I have never known a fireman to enter a property where there is a suspected CO or gas leak. At most they will turn the gas off at an outside meterbox. They are more that happy to stand back and allow us to deal with it!

C_Mababejive

RE post 22 by Gman..

Thank you for further clarification.

Are PAMs issued to all gasmen who work for the emergency service?

Can we at least agree that as the gasman doesnt have CO detection equipment,he cannot possibly say whether or not CO is present in the atmosphere and therefore it is theoretically possible that when he arrives there may be CO and when he leaves,there may be CO simply becuase he/she cannot test for it.

Probably the reason why the FB dont go inside in the instances you quote is that they have been briefed not to enter a hazardous atmosphere without BA and so they stand outside,bemused,as the occupier remains inside watching Emmerdale for a gasman to arrive with no CO detection equipment.

lyndac40

Hi

Just a wee note to add the council round our way provide each house with a co alarm. There is no way you can get into the battery compartment of these co alarms as it is a sealed unit. When ours went of we had to call the council who then sent out someone to check the alarm. There was no co in the house it was only a faulty battery. It is very scary when the alarm goes off but the emergancy lady assured us it was nothing to worry about. The co alarm was replaced with a new one.