Help From Social Services

Zebra

Thanks again Monkeyspanner - I'm just reading through your thread on CHC, if I've any questions about that I'll post them on there.

I think my parents savings will be more than £46,000 combined, so my dad will be self-funding, at least to start with.

The social services (I keep wanting to type SS - but people may get the wrong impression, as they've been very helpful so far!) mentioned about the different arrangements that they have with nursing homes, but I hadn't considered the case of top-ups.

With regard to finances, I think it would be a good idea for my mum to open an account of her own and have her pension etc paid into that, as her pension is more than my dad's. We'll look into spliting any savings into individual accounts, although I think most of their savings are in long-term savings bonds.

If we did split the savings into individual accounts, would it be possible if say they had £60,000 of savings to transfer £30,000 into just my mum's name but keep the other £30,000 in a joint account, but designated as just my dad's, for ease of access and dealing with the banks?

We drew up an Enduring Power of Attorney a few years so I think now's the time to register that, although I understand that the rules have changed since then, we'll have to speak to the solicitor.

Savvy_Sue

Zebra wrote: »

I hope your dad makes a good recovery, are the hospital encouraging him enough to make himself more mobile?

Not IMO, but that's as much him as them, again IMO. Because he's not comfortable sitting up, he prefers to lie in bed. Only I think he's beginning to realise that there's a price to be paid for that, in terms of not being able to get out of bed and walk ANY distance, even as far as the loo ... However, the physios are now having a go at him every day, which I think is an improvement.

Zebra wrote: »

We drew up an Enduring Power of Attorney a few years so I think now's the time to register that, although I understand that the rules have changed since then, we'll have to speak to the solicitor.

The rules have changed wrt setting up new Powers of Attorney, but there would be no problem registering the one which was drawn up a few years ago, and you wouldn't necessarily need a solicitor's help to do it.

If its terms are no long sensible, then you'd have to set up the new kind. They are more complicated, but you can do one for Finance and one for Care, if your father's no longer capable of making his own decisions about where to live etc.

More information from the Office of the Public Guardian.

monkeyspanner

Zebra wrote: »

Thanks again Monkeyspanner - I'm just reading through your thread on CHC, if I've any questions about that I'll post them on there.

I think my parents savings will be more than £46,000 combined, so my dad will be self-funding, at least to start with.

The social services (I keep wanting to type SS - but people may get the wrong impression, as they've been very helpful so far!) mentioned about the different arrangements that they have with nursing homes, but I hadn't considered the case of top-ups.

With regard to finances, I think it would be a good idea for my mum to open an account of her own and have her pension etc paid into that, as her pension is more than my dad's. We'll look into spliting any savings into individual accounts, although I think most of their savings are in long-term savings bonds.

If we did split the savings into individual accounts, would it be possible if say they had £60,000 of savings to transfer £30,000 into just my mum's name but keep the other £30,000 in a joint account, but designated as just my dad's, for ease of access and dealing with the banks?

We drew up an Enduring Power of Attorney a few years so I think now's the time to register that, although I understand that the rules have changed since then, we'll have to speak to the solicitor.

Splitting in that way should be ok but you may need to explain the detail of the split when the financial assessment is done. I think it would be a good idea to have your mum's pension paid separately as you suggest.

Here is the link to the relevant fact sheet on paying for care.
http://www.counselandcare.org.uk/assets/library/documents/16_Care_home_fees_paying_them_in_England_2009.pdf

One very good suggestion in it is if your dad is close to the £23000 upper savings limit to request a care needs assessment and ask if the council would be prepared to arrange fee terms with the care home and then ask you for payment. This will allow for the transition to assisted payment more easily.

Zebra

Thanks to everyone for their help and messages of support - they are very much appreciated.

My father is still in hospital, but this week has finally had his assessment by the PCT.

They have decided to provide CHC funding for the next six weeks and then review it, although we havn't received anything in writing yet.
I don't really understand the rationale behind this decision - is it a usual one to review it like this after a few weeks?

I'm not sure what they expect to happen after six weeks!
No doctor or medical staff has ever even inferred that his condition will significantly improve. The stroke affected a third of his brain, and he's now suffering from dementia - I've never heard of dementia sufferrers improving in that way.
Of course, he has his good days and his bad days - recently he's been quite good, but a couple of weeks ago he was convinced there were rats in his room, he even said there was one on his lap - it was just his left hand, in which he's got no feeling.
He had been very emotional - a common result of strokes we're told - and was very weepy and crying, especially when we had to leave him, which obviously was rather upsetting to my mum, and often we could hear him crying out for us or a nurse - even though there was nothing wrong and he didn't realise he was doing it. Still it was upsetting for my mum to witness it. It's improved recently though, a result of minor changes in his medication I think.

On a practical point of view, we've found a lovely nursing home, and they are quite keen to have him, but the manager needs to visit him first to see if they will be able to cope with his disabilities - I hope they will, and they've had stroke victims and dementia patients living there before.

The solicitor is in the process of registering the EPA, which will give both me and my mum the powers. I understand the legal aspects and principle behind it, but I'm not sure of the practical aspects of how it works - once I've sent a copy to banks etc, do I apply for things with his name and address and just sign it in my name, or do I apply for things in my name on his behalf?
Luckily all the savings were in joint names so my mum has access to them anyway.
We're in the process of splitting the capital - already opened a sole account for my mum and transferred her pensions and all the direct debits in relation to the house.
So when we get the EPA we just need to open an account in my dad's name and transfer his pension and then we can split the capital between the two accounts.

monkeyspanner

Congratulations. It is normal for the CHC award to be reviewed after an initial period although 6 weeks does sound short, it is more normally 12weeks or longer. Hope the care home placement goes well.

The treatment of POA's varies a lot between each banking group and you will find counter staff are usually ill informed, unaware of the legal powers involved and at times obstructive. From past experience avoid Abbey they make life extremely difficult on POA registered accounts. LLoydsTSB were OK but this may have been because we had a long account history with them. New accounts are normally in the POA name on behalf of the beneficial account holder. New cards and cheque books will be issued. Dependant on the bank you may find that certain currennt account facilities will not be available on a POA account. Once you have the POA I would try to get appointments to open accounts with someone fairly senior in the branch, a normal "advisor" may not be fully aware of what you need.

My Dad had a serious stroke years ago and lost speech and all movement on one side of his body. Understandably he used to get very upset that he could not express himself and so tears are quite normal although upsetting for him and you. Hopefully once your Dad is in a care home and he gets used to the environmentand routine he should improve emotionally. Medication as you say should improve things if it is adjusted correctly.

tubsmacker

Another tip I have been given albeit a bit of a sensitive issue for many. Is that if you are close to the SS threshold for assistance, then you could spend money on a prepaid funeral plan. Given that these costs are legitimately excluded from any assessment, an average Plan of say £3,000 would tuck you under the threshold.

Aside from that advice, I advocate vociferous pursuance of fully funded CHC where there is a health need as These PCT's are spanking all and sundry who legitimately qualify for CHC and need to be challenged.

Zebra

Thanks Tubsmacker - That's something I'll bear in mind.

Thanks Monkeyspanner - apologies for not thanking you earlier, I hadn't realised you had replied.

The six-week period ends next week, so we'll see what happens then - although I don't think there's been any significant improvement in his condition.

The nursing home has in general been good - although there have been one or two issues eg a meal just being left out for him and a general lack of communication.
However, we are loathed to move him elsewhere - this home got the best assessment results of any in the area and is also the nearest.
The problem is we just don't have anything to compare it with - the home my grandmother was in until 2 years ago was excellent, but is just a residential home rather then a nursing home, and wouldn't be able to look after my Dad.

Thanks for the advice re. POA, thankfully his affairs aren't too complicated - the only sole account he has is an ISA with Barclays - so do we just register the POA for that account in a branch? What about things like pensions, tax etc?

tubsmacker

Yes, you will need to register the POA in the bank branch. I have just gone through this for my mum. Some banks are better than others . Abbey are one of the worst.
Take your passport and driving licence with you as well as the POA form. If as in the case of my mum there is a mental capacity problem, you may need to register the POA at the Cout of Protection,which is part of the OPG Office of the Public guardian, a £120 fee applies but thats it. If you get your solicitor to do it it could cost £300 or poss more on top of fees plus VAT.
I rang the DOWP and they said my Mums pension will continue to be paid but they stop any attendance allowance after 28 days in Hospital. Tax I dunno, but I imagine that would continue to be assessed on unearned income and pensions as before.

Savvy_Sue

tubsmacker wrote: »

I rang the DOWP and they said my Mums pension will continue to be paid but they stop any attendance allowance after 28 days in Hospital.

I thought the AA was payable for the first 6 weeks in hospital, but was then stopped?

And note that they may not stop it that fast, so there may be an overpayment. Worth keeping an eye on.

I'm fairly confident about that, because my dad died after exactly 6 weeks in hospital, and the overpayment that's been claimed back started from the day he died. My mum had written to say he had gone into hospital, and was quite surprised that they hadn't just stopped it after 6 weeks, but I did explain to her that they couldn't possibly know whether someone was STILL in hospital after 6 weeks unless they were told!

tubsmacker

According to their website they say that AA will usually stop after 4 weeks.
The word usually suggests to me that there may be exceptions to that.
Advice on their site relating to pensions simply suggests that you call them.

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/DisabledPeople/HealthAndSupport/Hospitals/DG_4000474