Free solar power system. Is it a scam?

K4blades

M4ximillion wrote: »

I decided to stop posting some time ago because it felt like a battle everytime I said anything remotely positive about free PV - never mind what you say Cardew anyone pro free pv are totally bullied on this thread and you started it. At one point I even got slagged off cause I cant be bothered with punctuation - you lot got so desperate.

You even manage to pull XRay Dave to bits in your very clever, patronising way and iVE looked back and his posts are always really fair. I cant find the post where K4 declared an interest in ASG so i cant comment on that but to be honest whether he has an interest or not he made some fair comments as far as im concerned - as did lots of other folk you drove off this thread. I just thought I'd have a last look today before withdrawiing completely like Doc N and Jon T and as usual the pro free pv people are taking a bashing.

And by the way Cardew - I thought YOU worked for a power company so you definitely have an interest to be against free pv no matter what you say but i guess its ok with you cause you have your cronies to suck up to you together with the MSE folk - its quite obvious you and others have a definite hidden agenda otherwise you wouldnt have dug in with such ferocity. Its a load of crap that youre doing it for the greater good of poor unsuspecting folk like me who may be considering having free PV - ABSOLUTE RUBBISH! You have a hidden agenda its obvious. I dont believe for one tiny second that you have anyones interest at heart other than your own - NONE OF US HAVE! Youre not exactly whiter than white in that respect, think theres a bit of hypocrisy on your part Mr Holiday Home in the US.

K4 isnt the most abusive poster - YOU are Cardew! Except you do it in a much more clever way - but i guess if its done cleverly its acceptable isnt it?

For those of you who are thinking about having FREE solar pv - make your own mind up by talking to folk who already have it done and talking to the companies that are doing it and having a think about the pros and cons by talking to organisations like the Energy Saving Trust - organisations that dont have any vested interest but DONT make your mind up by reading forums like this - they are full of people with their own agendas.

Bye bye, cant stand this anymore - it stinks.

Well said, though no doubt they will say its me thats stifling debate, when it is they who are driving people away.

grahamc2003

K4blades,

You say having free panles is simply a choice between getting a free £80 or not getting a free £80 - which is false, and has been pointed out as false. The choice is commit to renting your roof for 26 years, and forego any future loft conversions, forgo the possibility of getting the fits yoursel, forego the possibility of eventually selling to someone who doesn't want to take on the 'free' contract and there are probably more. You are dishonest saying the choice is simply to take a free £80 or not - yet you are still saying it, knowing it to be false. The fact you almost certainly use that as a sales technique to those who know no better means the industry itself must not be much better than the techniques employed in double glazing and pyramid selling - something we were assured would not be the case.

K4blades

graham, before you lecture me on Physics, maybe you ought to get to grips on some basic English.

1) Please state what I've guessed. This was you phrase which you accuse me of, and after being asked several times, you still fail to answer the question.
2) Please explain what my "views" are. I have simply reffered people to other sources of information. I have no personal view, nor experince, to say for example if 50% is reasonable or not. So I suggest looking for credible advice, yet YOU have said that the government is wrong.
3) Please state what abuse I have shown, other than to suggest that you views are in a minority, and that three of you resent anyone oppossing that view. And on the subject of evidence, theres a growing amount of that, sharing my view, that you three are simply bullying your point of view through.

So instead of your patronising and condensing attitude, constantly looking for ways to discredit me or others, why not just answer some simple questions.

Or is that too hard for you.

Oh, and for your interest, not that its any of your business, I DO NOT SELL SOLAR PANELS AND HAVE NEVER BEEN INVOLVED IN PYRAMID SELLING. I SAID SOME OF MY CLIENTS ARE PV INSTALLERS, or is that another fact you choose to ignore so that you can carry on scare mongering and lying your way through and argument.....so why don't you get some facts before you make false acusations.

grahamc2003

K4blades wrote: »

graham, before you lecture me on Physics, maybe you ought to get to grips on some basic English.

1) Please state what I've guessed. This was you phrase which you accuse me of, and after being asked several times, you still fail to answer the question.
2) Please explain what my "views" are. I have simply reffered people to other sources of information. I have no personal view, nor experince, to say for example if 50% is reasonable or not. So I suggest looking for credible advice, yet YOU have said that the government is wrong.
3) Please state what abuse I have shown, other than to suggest that you views are in a minority, and that three of you resent anyone oppossing that view. And on the subject of evidence, theres a growing amount of that, sharing my view, that you three are simply bullying your point of view through.

So instead of your patronising and condensing attitude, constantly looking for ways to discredit me or others, why not just answer some simple questions.

Or is that too hard for you.

Oh, and for your interest, not that its any of your business, I DO NOT SELL SOLAR PANELS AND HAVE NEVER BEEN INVOLVED IN PYRAMID SELLING. I SAID SOME OF MY CLIENTS ARE PV INSTALLERS, or is that another fact you choose to ignore so that you can carry on scare mongering and lying your way through and argument.....so why don't you get some facts before you make false acusations.

There comes a time when abuse, a lack of any logical ability and total incoherence gets beyond unbeleivable irony and impedes any form of debate or discussion.

grahamc2003

I was hoping not to reply further, but I'm afraid if you are descending further down murky depths and accuse me of lying, then I have no choice, however boring this must seem to everyone else.

So no, I haven't lied, and I never do. It is your inability to read and comprehend that leads you to believe I said something I didn't, but I doubt even if you read the quote again you could ever see that. Nevertheless, you have descended into libel, and hence I have asked the moderator to remove your post. I doubt you even realise what libel is.

Please keep any reply you may make within the bounds of legality so I can finally escape from this absurd interchange.

Gizmosmum_2

It's a shame that this thread has descended so low.

There's been some fab contributions from Cardew Zeupeter, John T, John P, K4blades and many others with differing views (even Grahamc2003 ocassionally - although I have to say your posts are a little blunt for my taste ).

I contacted the moderator earlier this afternoon, not to ask for a particular person's comment to be removed but to see if there is a way to return to a more sensible exchange of views. I've found the forum a great source of information - it's a shame that newcomers may be put off accessing the information as a result of petty bickering.

I'm not out yet - I'll wait and see if the tone improves - ever the optimist!

K4blades

Very quick to run to the mods Graham...and I thought it was me that was stifling debate....
Still no answers to the questions though....is that why you want my posts deleting, my questions are just too hard for you...

You accuse me of guessing but I have repeatedly asked you what I have guessed and you fail to answer, so maybe that is a lie on your part.
You say that I probably use pressure selling techniques, and acuse me of libel.

Really Graham, run along crying to the mods all you want, I will keep asking questions of you opinions...
such as why you think countless industry professionals are wrong on an issue and you are right....answers please...we're still waiting....

joolsleeds

Gizmosmum wrote: »

It's a shame that this thread has descended so low.

There's been some fab contributions from Cardew Zeupeter, John T, John P, K4blades and many others with differing views (even Grahamc2003 ocassionally - although I have to say your posts are a little blunt for my taste ).

I contacted the moderator earlier this afternoon, not to ask for a particular person's comment to be removed but to see if there is a way to return to a more sensible exchange of views. I've found the forum a great source of information - it's a shame that newcomers may be put off accessing the information as a result of petty bickering.

I'm not out yet - I'll wait and see if the tone improves - ever the optimist!

Quite agree.

It's such a shame that the thread seems to have lost its way.

The title of the thread is 'Free Solar Power System -Is it a scam?'

I think - everyone agrees no, it's not a 'scam' though it has it's advantages (e.g. free systems for people who can't afford them and *some* free electricity) and some disadvantages (e.g. 25 year lease, scheme loopholes being turned in to a business model).

The above have been discussed at length and repeatedly. I'm sure readers can see the pro's and con's of signing up to the schemes and make their own decision.

Perhaps it's time to say enough is enough on this thread.

Cards on the table, I'm a happy ASG customer, have seen a modest decrease in my bills, and am doing my bit for the environment.

Perhaps Sarah from ASG was given a break by being banished before the thread got this bad!!!!

XRayDave

I'm another one considering leaving this thread to fester as it seems to have degenerated into a slanging match.

All I have ever tried to do is answer any questions asked as accurately as possible and offer some info - like the figures from my ASG system - in order to inform others and allow them to make their own minds up.

Several times my posts have been misread/misinterpreted and information queried. I don't really mind that, after all, most folks have the intelligence to read what had actually been written, but what I DO take exception to is the almost constant bickering that seems to have broken out recently - none of it is productive. To what positive end do the protagonists feel that this "warfare" is helpful or productive?

If folks want further info regarding panel output, feel free to PM me - I may not check the forum daily, but I will get back to you. That way I can be helpful to those that want it and ignore those who I feel have noting valuable to add. That said, I don't feel that I really wish to contribute to this thread any further, it has gone way past it's "Best Before" date!

Regards

Dave

beedydad

I thank all those whom have contributed, whether in favour or not.

I am dissappointed that the tone of some recent postings have seriously deteriated from what is a really important critique of solar PV and its place going forward towards lowering reliance on fosil fuels.

As some of my postings may have indicated I am not fully in favour of "free" or "rent a roof" company offerings.

I have appreciated the reasons for some taking these up which in the main seem reasonable as they fall, generally, into the "we have no capital or access to capital, or we don't want a further loan, etc" - that is a reasonable reason to take these up.

Otherwise I am fuilly in favour of solar PV if purchased at a sensible pricing - which at present seem to be lowering - albeit we do not know what effect increased commodity/energy/VAT will have on overall costs going foward.

My gripe with "free/rent a roof" I have made clear before - is the unfairness of the division of income that the install companies take v's the available saving made on home useage (which most are not fully up to speed as to what it is they are saving) - roll on export/smart meters!

This overall, I strongly believe will do more harm to the industry than many other aspects. I feel it would be a great shame if the type of behaviour shown here indicates what is to come within the industry going forward and will ruin things before they really get going.

The forum is about money saving and not about lining some compnaies with long term profits - yes in short term they will tell al that they have a huge cost to set up and running their businesses - but sure as anything they have costed to make money and that will be easy money off people in 8 or so years - carrying on for up to 25 years. I just do not think it very fair at all.

Thanks + regards