Free solar power system. Is it a scam?

beedydad

I placed this on other board which may be a reflection on this debate.

zeupater wrote: »

Hi All

I think that the discussion revolving around rich/poor, capitalism/socialism etc is really getting away from the subject at hand.

As it stands I have no problem with companies offering the free systems, it's a good idea, I also have no problem with any company or individual taking advantage of loopholes whilst they exist, as long as it isn't particulary immoral to do so, and they are aware that the rules can change.

Rich V's Poor? Free V's Paid

It does seem a bit skewered in the analysis.

Rich - assumes you have a big property suitable to fit a large solar kit - then you have a choice to pay for it yourself or get a free kit
Poor - assumes you may rent from either council or private in which case neither scheme would apply as not in tennents hands. OR may be cash poor but own own property - so can only get a free kit OR maybe be poor because can only live in a small house and not able to apply for either scheme as roof not large enough!
There are too many variables to state that this is a rich V's poor and the poor lose out.

Would like to see a scheme where smaller "free" kits are offered to smaller/poorer households - or through Councils so that the poorer/less well off can actually benefit. Now if in the makeup of the utility companies such as BG SSE were to do this or were obliged to offer these as a % of the total kits installed (a bit like new buildiing requirements where a % has to be allocated for social housing) then I think it would satisfy a number of the posters over the unfairness in the current structure.
Regards

beedydad

Also this may be of assistance - please note the independent body REAL with the link.

Quote:
Originally Posted by K4blades
How much is your roof worth?
Beedeydad keeps going on about getting a better rent for it, but has not fed back on here if he has tried doing it.
Cardew wants a 50/50 split. Unlikely to happen as the provider is taking all the risk, costs, maintenance, etc while all you are doing is allowing someone else to use your roof space.
So lets look at the argument that we are all paying for the FITs, the implication is that we would have lower bills if it weren't for FITs, does anyone seriously believe this, Cardew? Graham?, anyone. As I have posted elsewhere the money would simply get spent on something else.
However, lets accept that argument.
Taking ASGs figures of a FIT income of £1284 per annum.
Now I know this will vary massively across all the different installers, but it is quite typical.
The most optimistic figure I have seen is for a total of 200,000 installations, though I think it will be much less than this, and that includes the private individuals.
But if we did have 200,000 installations, at a cost of £1284 each, thats a total annual cost of £256 million.
Wow, a lot of money.
But if we are all paying for it, (and assuming by all, we only mean domestic customers, not commercial), there are 25million houses in this country,
so £256million, divided by 25million, means each house has to contribute just over a tenner to fund FITs. So if you have a system installed from the likes of ASG, and reduce your bill my more than a tenner, your on the winning side.
Of course, if you don't or can't you're £10 a year worse off, but so what. I have to pay for all sorts of things that I don't directly benefit from, its called capitalism.

In response K4 - I have not applied as I do not personally consider it a good dea,l as has been set out by many posters before. All I have been trying to do is highlight that the balance of income/profit is seriously tipped towards the "free" solar companies and I am attempting to address the balance.

I met a chap from REAL who was interested in this aspect as they have put out advice for people on these free schemes.
http://www.realassurance.org.uk/pdf_...pv-systems.pdf

which may be help to people.

Cost of FIT - i do not believe that we are as yet charged for this as a levy will be added to all bills, not sure of the detail as to whether it will alter the kw unit rate or there will be a seperate item somewhere on all our bills - maybe we should all watch for this.

I note you say the cost seems very low between £5- £10pa but do not forget that utility bills will be going up by somewhere between 7% - 10% over next year - so any savings will soon be swamped by have to pay for any chargeable power used!

This will make it difficult to judge whether solar is seriously making any savings when any people are trying to compare last years bills with this or next years!

Regards

K4blades

Mcfi5dhc wrote: »

As some of you may have noticed, this thread is now one year old.

I had a quick re-read of most of it last night, and sometimes it does drift one way or t'other, but all in all, I think it is useful.

I think Sarah Dyson (missed by me and others) proved it is not a scam. You will not have to pay a penny to have cheaper electric. Though in my opinion, you need to consider future house sale prices if going for this option.

I realise now it was a mistake to have an export meter fitted on a system I purchased myself (If you have a backwards spinner, winner), though you are disadvantaged once you have to have a smart meter anyway

I think the number of companies now jumping on board the free solar panels thing is alarming - and certainly the big guns like BG and SSE should not be allowed.

I think the following should be mandatory for these schemes though:

• A buyout clause - so, if after 10 years you want to sell your house, you can buy the panels at a fair price and get the FIT yourself.
• Proper guidence of the amount of electric that can be used in your home.*
• For people selling houses with free solar panels on them, this should be declared truthfully (the RightMove property advertised back a few pages is shameful)

*These vary from £50 (probably about right for a normal household), to a whopping £400 a year (Rightmove ad), which is complete balderdash.

Its not for me to force these through though, these are just my opinions.

Thats a very good post, and your bullet points make a lot of sense. The problem in all walks of life is that there are "rogue trader" elements, and I think most would agree that asg don't fall into this category, even if you don't like what they do. It would be a shame if the industry was brought down by some compnies jumping on the bandwagon, and not being so open with their customers/clients/landlords??????
The govt. ought to insist on strict guidlines that all of these companies follow, and the points above are a good start.

Mcfi5dhc

I wouldn't decribe ASG as rogue either. The government though, thats a different matter!

ASG, Isis, BG, SSE, the one I have forgotten, plus the two or three that'll no doubt start up next week, are just running a business using rules drawn up by government.

Though to be fair to the current government, they have just picked up the mess from the old lot, though they have their own rogues in-house as well.

Mcfi5dhc

Hello

Two more properties for sale with ASG panels. ASG have listed them honesty and with usual integrity on their website, so if you see them on there, you know what you are getting.

The [STRIKE]rogue cowboy[/STRIKE]s, sorry estate agents though, thats a different matter.

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-10500612.html

Nice house - the estate agents states "There are Photo Voltaic solar panels fitted to the roof for day time electricity" (thats it)

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-28438891.html?premiumA=true

Again, a nice house - EA states "Solar Panels Providing Electricity" (and thats it)

So in summary, EA not exactly forthcoming with details. I'm not sure what they should put, though I don't think the amount they have put there is sufficient.

Once a few sell, it would be good to see what price they get compared to neighbours, though of course its always subjective and not scientific at all.

zeupater

Mcfi5dhc wrote: »

Hello

Two more properties for sale with ASG panels. ASG have listed them honesty and with usual integrity on their website, so if you see them on there, you know what you are getting.

The [STRIKE]rogue cowboy[/STRIKE]s, sorry estate agents though, thats a different matter.

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-10500612.html

Nice house - the estate agents states "There are Photo Voltaic solar panels fitted to the roof for day time electricity" (thats it)

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-28438891.html?premiumA=true

Again, a nice house - EA states "Solar Panels Providing Electricity" (and thats it)

So in summary, EA not exactly forthcoming with details. I'm not sure what they should put, though I don't think the amount they have put there is sufficient.

Once a few sell, it would be good to see what price they get compared to neighbours, though of course its always subjective and not scientific at all.

Hi

Agree .... And it seems that the second one is listed at a lower price too .... no mention at all of the solar panels on this listing ..... wonder if the panels were fitted in the belief that they would return a higher price (~£5k) on a house which was already for sale ??

http://www.underwoods-property.co.uk/index.php?option=com_propertysearch&view=full_details&propertyID=54445&Itemid=3

SavySave

Hi all

The idea of all this has interested me for some time...
I wanted to try out my scenario and see if you're all able to fill in the blanks.

My understanding...
I pay circa £14k to have the panels fitted myself.
The FITs scheme pays me a guaranteed £900 (or so) per year for 25 years.
I get free electicity while the sun shines
I receive a payment from the power company for every unit I generate.

That appears to be the easy bit...
Now for all my questions...

1. Do I get some kind of meter in the house - so I know what I'm using for free and what I'm taking from the grid (paying for).
I.E. If I had an electric heater or the washing machine on during the day - how would I know if I was using it for free? Does that make sense?

2. Does the system heat water? - so I could disconnect my Gas Central Heating from the job. I'm a single Dad with 3 daughters - so this one is of great interest :-)

3. A panel breaks or stops working. Are they guaranteed by the companies or covered by my home insurane? The guarantee maybe specific to the supplier I purchase from - but interested in the general thought on this one.

4. Do the panels actually last 25years+. I seem to remember reading somewhere that they only last a few years (I could be mad here - so happy to be corrected).

5. Will these become more expensive next year - when the VAT goes up.

I'm sure I've got a few more questions - but brain lock has occurred - so I'll leave this for now. Thank you, in advance, for anyone who can help... and hope that it helps other people too.

SavySave

moved to another thread - please ignore me

M4ximillion

Mcfi5dhc wrote: »

Hello

Two more properties for sale with ASG panels. ASG have listed them honesty and with usual integrity on their website, so if you see them on there, you know what you are getting.

The [STRIKE]rogue cowboy[/STRIKE]s, sorry estate agents though, thats a different matter.

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-10500612.html

Nice house - the estate agents states "There are Photo Voltaic solar panels fitted to the roof for day time electricity" (thats it)

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-28438891.html?premiumA=true

Again, a nice house - EA states "Solar Panels Providing Electricity" (and thats it)

So in summary, EA not exactly forthcoming with details. I'm not sure what they should put, though I don't think the amount they have put there is sufficient.

Once a few sell, it would be good to see what price they get compared to neighbours, though of course its always subjective and not scientific at all.

Just posted on the other thread after talking to Sarah at ASG about something totally different but had a nosey on this thread too and noticed this post. When i was talking to Sarah she mentioned that a property had just sold with their panels on it and she was trying to get more info from the homeowner. She said theyd only fitted the panels on it in Septmber. I asked her if it was the bungalow ont he website and she said it wasnt. Id be interested to find out if it is helping to sell cause im having them and although i dont think i'll ever sell its nice to know if its helping. There are some properties on our estate have been for sale for over twelve months now - stuff just isnt budging where we are. Mind you its mainly the bigger stuff that just isnt going - those 4 and 5 bed detached, our little three bed semis seem to go a bit faster.

Mcfi5dhc

M4ximillion wrote: »

Just posted on the other thread after talking to Sarah at ASG about something totally different but had a nosey on this thread too and noticed this post. When i was talking to Sarah she mentioned that a property had just sold with their panels on it and she was trying to get more info from the homeowner. She said theyd only fitted the panels on it in Septmber. I asked her if it was the bungalow ont he website and she said it wasnt. Id be interested to find out if it is helping to sell cause im having them and although i dont think i'll ever sell its nice to know if its helping. There are some properties on our estate have been for sale for over twelve months now - stuff just isnt budging where we are. Mind you its mainly the bigger stuff that just isnt going - those 4 and 5 bed detached, our little three bed semis seem to go a bit faster.

There is a forum in another section where people post "Why isn't my house selling" and people give consructive advice - maybe try there, can't do any harm. It the house Buying one (under Mortgage Free Wannabe)