Free solar power system. Is it a scam?

K4blades

beedydad wrote: »

However, the levy that the utility companies will be collecting from all of us, has, at present to be used and identified for the Feed in Tariff under the present terms.

There may well be a review in 2012/13 that may alter the FIT from the very high level relative to keep the investment yield at neaer 7% - 8% rather than the more likely level of @10% people are getting now. Ie becuase the cost of the solar PV kits are coming down!
But in the future it maybe that the levy will be utilised for other "renewable" purposes not specifically for solarPV ie because it maybe too succesful - such as if the "rent a roof" schemes oversupply! -or alternative demands raise up the agenda as you quite rightly point out.

I fully accept all that, but disagree with the implication made by some that without FITs, our bills would be less. My point is they wouldn't, the money would be spent on something else and we all have to pay for it whether we want to or not. (Many people don't want nuclear either).

Cardew

K4blades wrote: »

I fully accept all that, but disagree with the implication made by some that without FITs, our bills would be less. My point is they wouldn't, the money would be spent on something else and we all have to pay for it whether we want to or not. (Many people don't want nuclear either).

I fail to understand your reasoning.

We the customers pay for any subsidy(FIT) - I assume you agree?

Large PV farms have a much lower subsidy, say for simplicity it is 50% of the 41.3p/kWh for small systems.

If 1,000 small installations generate, say, 3MWh we pay £1,239,000 in subsidies.

A PV farm generating 3MWh would attract a subsidy(that we pay) 50% less i.e. £620,000 as a subsidy.

So UK ltd gets to generate 3MWh toward its target and it costs us consumers 50% less.

Zenoka

Hi everyone,

First post here so please be gentle

I have been reading with great interest this thread and the other one, we had our panels installed at the end of August this year. Hubby was made redundant:mad: but lucky enough to get another job straight away so we thought it made sense to put the cash into the panels to give us something for the future and a little bit of income.

Its making a big difference to us on our bills and Im really pleased we got them. Especially with the worry of seeing that prices are due to go up 10%.:eek:

Just wanted to share my experiences and to add a little something back after learning so much from this forum.

Zenoka

grahamc2003

Zenoka wrote: »

Hi everyone,


Its making a big difference to us on our bills and Im really pleased we got them. Especially with the worry of seeing that prices are due to go up 10%.:eek:


Zenoka

I hope I'm not being difficult, but your post does raise some questions - like how many bills have you had since August?

It would be great if you could quantify things - like the actual savings you have made on you electricity bill (and how you know), and the capacity of your pv system (i.e. something like 2.6kw, or 3.8kw for example).

Zenoka

grahamc2003 wrote: »

I hope I'm not being difficult, but your post does raise some questions - like how many bills have you had since August?

It would be great if you could quantify things - like the actual savings you have made on you electricity bill (and how you know), and the capacity of your pv system (i.e. something like 2.6kw, or 3.8kw for example).

Happy to help

We pay monthly by dd so have not really had bills as such. system is a 1.6.

I tried to post a picture of a graph that shows our usage but it wont let me as Im new. Sept and oct use is down 47% but part of that is due to low energy bulbs. I think it has knocked about a third off the bill. We only have a small terrace so we dont use much and we have gas boiler.

We send a meter reading in every month. It didnt make much difference to the aug reading as panels were put in at end of the month.

I wish we could have a bigger system for bigger savings but were told that they couldn't fit any more on the roof.

Are you getting panels as well?

grahamc2003

Zenoka wrote: »

Happy to help

We pay monthly by dd so have not really had bills as such. system is a 1.6.

I tried to post a picture of a graph that shows our usage but it wont let me as Im new. Sept and oct use is down 47% but part of that is due to low energy bulbs. I think it has knocked about a third off the bill. We only have a small terrace so we dont use much and we have gas boiler.

We send a meter reading in every month. It didnt make much difference to the aug reading as panels were put in at end of the month.

I wish we could have a bigger system for bigger savings but were told that they couldn't fit any more on the roof.

Are you getting panels as well?

For various reasons, I wouldn't have a 'free' system, but I have had a quote for my own panels to get a feeling for the cost and output of these things. My southish facing roofs are large enough, but at 45% (one SW, another at 90 degress to that, SE. So my output is at a disadvantage to start with - only getting 85% of a roof facing S. My quote made no financial sense in my situation, but finances wouldn't be my only consideration. The other problem is with two sets of panels at 90 degrees, I'd need two inverters, so their replacement would be a drag on any returns.

All in all, I've ruled it out for the moment, but may revist in 18 months or so, when I expect the panels to be cheaper, and assuming the fits are still at the same level.

K4blades

Cardew wrote: »

I fail to understand your reasoning.

We the customers pay for any subsidy(FIT) - I assume you agree?

Large PV farms have a much lower subsidy, say for simplicity it is 50% of the 41.3p/kWh for small systems.

If 1,000 small installations generate, say, 3MWh we pay £1,239,000 in subsidies.

A PV farm generating 3MWh would attract a subsidy(that we pay) 50% less i.e. £620,000 as a subsidy.

So UK ltd gets to generate 3MWh toward its target and it costs us consumers 50% less.

My objection about the fact that "we all pay" is the implication that our bills would be less without FITs, which I reject, do you?

As for solar farms, then yes, I agree with you, it is a more efficient way of generating but there are other factors. For example if you use a green field / farmers field, the farmer will want some sort of compensation for the loss of his money generating field, add to that, the loss of food production area, and probably being further from the grid. Then theres the NIMBY factor
If you consider brown field sites, is that an efficient use of land, why not build much needed houses on the land and put PVs on those roofs.
Or you could put large scale systems on places like Tesco's roof, but who wants to subsidise an increase in profits for these already large business's.
And also, with all of these options, there is no direct benefit for individual home-owners who would still have to provide some sort of funding, so we would end up with the prior situation where PVs are there only for the rich.
I'm not rejecting your point, I just don't see it as an either/or situation. We should be looking for as many ways as possible to take advantage of PV generation, as well as other forms of generation. The more eggs that are in the basket, the better.

Jon_Tiffany

grahamc2003 wrote: »

All in all, I've ruled it out for the moment, but may revist in 18 months or so, when I expect the panels to be cheaper, and assuming the fits are still at the same level.

Be careful with your timing, I think it is very likely that the rates will be reduced before the next scheduled review. There will certainly be a sweet spot just before any review where prices have dropped. The problem is that there may be little warning of a reduction in the FIT, I would say be prepared to move quickly.

There are lots of new companies appearing every day on the MCS website, this should do wonders to increase competition and drive down prices.

The pound is weak at the moment, a better exchange rate should also help drive down prices.

Gizmosmum_2

I'm not entirely convinced about prices coming down - there seems to be some difficulty getting various components, panels, inverters and roofing kits.

The free companies are going to make matters worse in respect of taking up the available supply making those who want to buy systems at a bit of a disadvantage before too long. Lack of supply will keep prices inflated. Only my opinion but I'm failry convinced that there isn't much better time than now to buy. Mind you I would say that having just splashed the cash on my ecobling

Mcfi5dhc

As some of you may have noticed, this thread is now one year old.

I had a quick re-read of most of it last night, and sometimes it does drift one way or t'other, but all in all, I think it is useful.

I think Sarah Dyson (missed by me and others) proved it is not a scam. You will not have to pay a penny to have cheaper electric. Though in my opinion, you need to consider future house sale prices if going for this option.

I realise now it was a mistake to have an export meter fitted on a system I purchased myself (If you have a backwards spinner, winner), though you are disadvantaged once you have to have a smart meter anyway

I think the number of companies now jumping on board the free solar panels thing is alarming - and certainly the big guns like BG and SSE should not be allowed.

I think the following should be mandatory for these schemes though:

• A buyout clause - so, if after 10 years you want to sell your house, you can buy the panels at a fair price and get the FIT yourself.
• Proper guidence of the amount of electric that can be used in your home.*
• For people selling houses with free solar panels on them, this should be declared truthfully (the RightMove property advertised back a few pages is shameful)

*These vary from £50 (probably about right for a normal household), to a whopping £400 a year (Rightmove ad), which is complete balderdash.

Its not for me to force these through though, these are just my opinions.