Free solar power system. Is it a scam?

Larnsky

skelly01 wrote: »

I dont know why the debate rages on and becomes clouded. The title of the original post was Free Solar Power Is It A Scam. In one simple answer............... NO

I agree!!!

zeupater

skelly01 wrote: »

I dont know why the debate rages on and becomes clouded. The title of the original post was Free Solar Power Is It A Scam. In one simple answer............... NO

Hi

I think the answer is actually ........... 'partially'

The FiT scheme was designed to encourage households to take-up renewable generation by providing an incentive of an eventual payback, not a largescale business investment to utilise a loophole in the legislation ...............

The Fit payment of 41.3p/kWh generated is designed to eventually payback the consumer for the investment, not enrich the large generating companies .... you'll soon see the likes of British Gas churning out thousands of these installations and claiming the 41.3p for their own shareholders ... and the rest of us will be paying for the it in higher costs/unit.

Schemes such as this which are operated by large organisations should definately not be included in the FiT scheme because the operators do not work on consumer prices which gives them a much quicker return on investment, this should be addressed urgently within the FiT rules. Failure to address this issue will actually result in households with these systems, although receiving some power for free, paying higher bills.

Is it a scam ?, consider this ........ "That's right Sir, we'll give you 50% for free if you agree to pay more than twice the current price" .....

Are the companies operating this business model operating a scam?, well probably no ...... If the FiT scheme payment isn't reduced for such schemes will any uptakers see a reduction in their bills over time?, probably not .... so if the information received doesn't point this out, what else would you call it .....


Regards

Gizmosmum_2

Of course it's been happening for years just not on quite such a bit scale. Who do you think has been paying for condensing boilers before they were part of Building control, cavity wall and loft insulation, millions of low energy bulbs, Owls's, draft proofing - all from utility consumer's pockets.

daytona600_2

nothing in life is free
noboby fits a 10 grand pv system to your house for free
they only do it as a investment as it will produce 20to 30 grand
in feed in tarriffs over the next 25 years tax free & index linked
better to call it buy its real name - roof leasing
better to buy your own pv system & get the payments yourself


h

zeupater wrote: »

Hi

I think the answer is actually ........... 'partially'

The FiT scheme was designed to encourage households to take-up renewable generation by providing an incentive of an eventual payback, not a largescale business investment to utilise a loophole in the legislation ...............

The Fit payment of 41.3p/kWh generated is designed to eventually payback the consumer for the investment, not enrich the large generating companies .... you'll soon see the likes of British Gas churning out thousands of these installations and claiming the 41.3p for their own shareholders ... and the rest of us will be paying for the it in higher costs/unit.

Schemes such as this which are operated by large organisations should definately not be included in the FiT scheme because the operators do not work on consumer prices which gives them a much quicker return on investment, this should be addressed urgently within the FiT rules. Failure to address this issue will actually result in households with these systems, although receiving some power for free, paying higher bills.

Is it a scam ?, consider this ........ "That's right Sir, we'll give you 50% for free if you agree to pay more than twice the current price" .....

Are the companies operating this business model operating a scam?, well probably no ...... If the FiT scheme payment isn't reduced for such schemes will any uptakers see a reduction in their bills over time?, probably not .... so if the information received doesn't point this out, what else would you call it .....


Regards

XRayDave

pauldreed wrote: »

The time quoted by lufc246 is for the actual panel fitting, as ASG follow a set installation programme;
1) An isolator switch is fitted by an electrician
2) A few days later the scaffolders fit the scaffold
3) A few days later the panels are then fitted by the installers (which lufc246 say's takes 4-5 hours)
4) The scaffold remains in place for up to a week - to make sure that the system is working OK, then removed.

So the total instal time is much more than 4-5 hours.

lufc246 does your postcode end in '0ET' by any chance? (I saw ASG finishing an instal at the same time as yours, close to where I live.)

Hi,

When ASG fitted my system in June, apart from the assembly and dissassembly of the scaffolding, the whole install took 5 1/2 - 6 hrs.
Arrived before 8am, working (inc all electrics) by 1:45-ish.

2 panel installers and one sparky.

XRD

Poosmate

Gizmosmum wrote: »

Of course it's been happening for years just not on quite such a bit scale. Who do you think has been paying for condensing boilers before they were part of Building control, cavity wall and loft insulation, millions of low energy bulbs, Owls's, draft proofing - all from utility consumer's pockets.

I completely agree with this. We are ALL already paying for this and have been for years. Do you think all the wind farms have been paid for from the utility companies savings account?

All of the utilities are committed to supplying a certain percentage of renewable energy, paying FiTs is probably much cheaper than aquiring land, getting planning permission, fighting the NIMBY's and purchasing and commissioning expensive wind farms.

Zeupater, the FiTs scheme may have been introduced as an incentive to kick start the solar power revolution but unfortunately with it's extremely slow return on the investment it alone would never have generated enough interest/uptake to allow the market to grow as it has done with the introduction of these "Free" schemes. Therefore it would only be the richer in society who would have benefited from it.

At least with the free installers, it's allowed many more families to be able to benefit from a little free electric but more importantly it's generated a whole new industry, creating jobs and will eventually bring down the cost of the installations so that it becomes more accessable to the masses.

Poo

skelly01

zeupater wrote: »

Hi

I think the answer is actually ........... 'partially'

The FiT scheme was designed to encourage households to take-up renewable generation by providing an incentive of an eventual payback, not a largescale business investment to utilise a loophole in the legislation ...............

The Fit payment of 41.3p/kWh generated is designed to eventually payback the consumer for the investment, not enrich the large generating companies .... you'll soon see the likes of British Gas churning out thousands of these installations and claiming the 41.3p for their own shareholders ... and the rest of us will be paying for the it in higher costs/unit.

Schemes such as this which are operated by large organisations should definately not be included in the FiT scheme because the operators do not work on consumer prices which gives them a much quicker return on investment, this should be addressed urgently within the FiT rules. Failure to address this issue will actually result in households with these systems, although receiving some power for free, paying higher bills.

Is it a scam ?, consider this ........ "That's right Sir, we'll give you 50% for free if you agree to pay more than twice the current price" .....

Are the companies operating this business model operating a scam?, well probably no ...... If the FiT scheme payment isn't reduced for such schemes will any uptakers see a reduction in their bills over time?, probably not .... so if the information received doesn't point this out, what else would you call it .....


Regards

The meaning of the word scam from an online dictionary is "a confidence game or other fraudulent scheme, esp. for making a quick profit; swindle."

So my post above is valid. This is not a fraudulent scheme nor from all the posts is it making a quick profit.
Is it misleading perhaps it is, although I cannot comment without seeing contracts. Again though, and taking ASG as the example, most comments on here seem to say that they are upfront and pretty transparent.

zeupater

skelly01 wrote: »

The meaning of the word scam from an online dictionary is "a confidence game or other fraudulent scheme, esp. for making a quick profit; swindle."

So my post above is valid. This is not a fraudulent scheme nor from all the posts is it making a quick profit.
Is it misleading perhaps it is, although I cannot comment without seeing contracts. Again though, and taking ASG as the example, most comments on here seem to say that they are upfront and pretty transparent.

Hi

Thats exactly why I posted 'partially'

Regarding the definition "a confidence game or other fraudulent scheme, esp. for making a quick profit; swindle." .... I would agree that the companies operating these schemes are not commiting any form of fraud, they're simply taking advantage of a current loophole in existing legislation, however, they are actually utilising the same strategy as a confidence trickster would, that being offering a high return for little investment hence "a confidence game" could be argued to be applicable.

Let's now analyse "esp. for making a quick profit". If you or I were to have a 4kWp system fitted it would like cost a nominal £15k, which is highly inflated by current high industry mark-ups in the UK. In more mature european markets the equivalent cost would be nearer to £10k, a level at which there is still a profit available for the installers, or they would simply not be doing it. Let us therefore assume that the 'true cost' of a system to a high volume installer is £7k-£8k for materials and a nominal £500 to fit, the resultant payback to scheme operators based on FiTs alone would be around 6.5 years, whilst the payback based on all factors to you or I would be, at best, 11 years ..... looks like they would be in profit very quickly at that rate of return, so definately "making a quick profit".

You get nothing for nothing, here you get some free power at the cost of paying more for the power you would still need to buy, so you rent out the roof for a return of 'nothing' ......

There will soon be schemes available to borrow the installation cost against future FiT income, my suggestion is that this would provide a better solution for most to consider.

Regards

Gizmosmum_2

Martin's on Radio 2 at 1o'clock discussing it - should be interesting.

Jon_Tiffany

daytona600 wrote: »

nothing in life is free
noboby fits a 10 grand pv system to your house for free
they only do it as a investment as it will produce 20to 30 grand
in feed in tarriffs over the next 25 years tax free & index linked

Only homeowners get the FITs tax free. The companies will have to pay tax on their profit.