Free solar power system. Is it a scam?

csae

Cardew wrote: »

Without dispute the scheme was 'drawn up to kick start solar panel generation'

However the scheme has a scale of subsidies that reduce progressively as the size of the PV system increases. Large scale commercial firms get a much lower subsidy.

The less than 4kWp stipulation for the highest FIT rate is clearly intended for individual houses.

By any measure ASG are a large scale commercial firm with thousands of 3.3kWp systems. If they had erected their thousands of panels on factory roofs in a brown field site, as a 'solar farm' the efficiencies are obvious.

Instead they have exploited a loophole where they erect thousands of systems on thousands of roofs and claim for all at the highest rate of FIT.

So we, the consumers, are directly paying a levy on our electricity consumption that goes straight to the coffers of a commercial firm. Please don't make an analogy along the lines of 'we all pay tax for schemes from which we gain no benefit'. This is different, we all pay money directly to a commercial firm who have found a way to exploit the system.

Now of course loads of other firms are going to cash in on this loophole.

I understand one MP is going to raise this issue after representations and personally I hope that they retrospectively reduce the FITs for these companies by treating their gross output from all systems as a single system.

Did you ring or write to him?

suejw_2

I think that's right - no scam. It's just new and we're typically suspicious!:j

lufc246

zeupater wrote: »

Hi lufc246

Looks good, a 3.5 hour full install, which seems to be contrary to what MCS installers post it would take to justify labour costs on other threads ....... can you provide any details of how the install unfolded ie scaffolders on site, how many people on site etc ?? as I think that this kind of information would be interesting to many who would be considering an ASG or other MCS install ....

Happy generating ....
Regards

1x Surveyor 30mins Pre fitting
1x Electrician 30mins Pre fitting
2x Fitters fitted panels 3.5 hours
1x Electician 3-4 hours during and after fitting
All approx

As for the scaffolders I do not know I wasn't in, less than 1/2 day though.

K4blades

ASG, ISIS etc, large businesses. Well it depends on your point of view. There are 25 million houses in this country, before you start counting all the commercial and industrial properties so if a business get involved in generating some of the power for about 10,000 of those houses, I would say its still small scale, hence the term micro-generator, and so what if its not a private individual. The likes of these business's make it easier for individuals, as overtime, costs wll come down, appearance issues will become more negligable, installlers will become more common place, etc, etc.
And as for the fact that we are all paying for it, well not through taxes, but yes through our utility bills, but you could say that about anything. Everyone pays for the railways through our taxes and I haven't been on a train for years....and if anyone thinks their electricty bill would be lower if it weren't for FITs really is deluded. NPowers margins would just be bigger.

I just think some people aren't happy unless they're being miserable.

Cardew

K4blades wrote: »

And as for the fact that we are all paying for it, well not through taxes, but yes through our utility bills, but you could say that about anything. Everyone pays for the railways through our taxes and I haven't been on a train for years....and if anyone thinks their electricty bill would be lower if it weren't for FITs really is deluded. NPowers margins would just be bigger.

I just think some people aren't happy unless they're being miserable.

Well if the logic of that post is to be followed, why are we upset that bankers paid themselves multi-million pound bonuses and our taxes had to bail them out?

Gizmosmum_2

Cardew wrote: »

Well if the logic of that post is to be followed, why are we upset that bankers paid themselves multi-million pound bonuses and our taxes had to bail them out?

True, but what did we actually manage to do about it

K4blades

Cardew wrote: »

Well if the logic of that post is to be followed, why are we upset that bankers paid themselves multi-million pound bonuses and our taxes had to bail them out?

Not my logic, I believe it originated in your post.

zeupater

K4blades wrote: »

ASG, ISIS etc, large businesses. Well it depends on your point of view. There are 25 million houses in this country, before you start counting all the commercial and industrial properties so if a business get involved in generating some of the power for about 10,000 of those houses, I would say its still small scale, hence the term micro-generator, and so what if its not a private individual. The likes of these business's make it easier for individuals, as overtime, costs wll come down, appearance issues will become more negligable, installlers will become more common place, etc, etc.
And as for the fact that we are all paying for it, well not through taxes, but yes through our utility bills, but you could say that about anything. Everyone pays for the railways through our taxes and I haven't been on a train for years....and if anyone thinks their electricty bill would be lower if it weren't for FITs really is deluded. NPowers margins would just be bigger.

I just think some people aren't happy unless they're being miserable.

Hi

The problem is not with any of the scheme operators, and I agree that 10,000 homes is not a great proportion of the housing stock in the UK, however, 10,000 homes with a 3.3kWp system will generate a FiT revenue of around £11million per year, index linked ..... that's a little different to the turnover of a typical small company but is nowhere near the likes of British Gas, NPower et al. For reference companies with an installed capacity exceeding 50kW cannot be classified as microgenerators according to section 82 (subsection 8) of the Energy Act 2004 (http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2004/20/section/82/enacted).

The problem arises when you find that similar schemes are being launched by the large utilities such as British Gas, and they are not proposing 10000 installs, they're looking at potentially hundreds of thousands, possibly even millions. Now, companies operating on this scale are not what the banded FiT scheme was designed for when the generation bands were set. For information the solar pv FiT bands for retro-fit panels are currently as follows ....

<4kWp is £0.413/kWh
=4kWp <10kWp is £0.361/kWh
=10kWp <100kWp is £0.314/kWh
=100kWp <5MWp is £0.293/kWh

... note that the scheme is designed for 'small' generation projects up to 5MWp, which is the equivalent of around 1900 3.3kWp installations, so if 'small' scheme operators were not taking advantage of a loophole in the leglislation in order to maximise income they would be installing very large solar generation farms of up to 5MWp capacity.

There are other schemes available to incentivise larger installations, however, due to more poorly constructed legislation by the previous government and the FiT rates available, you will find that almost every commercial operator will look at taking advantage. The loophole exists in that every location is classified as a separate generating entity, with there being no aggregation of installed capacity against individuals or commercial organisations, so the solution is simple, change the legislation to include an aggregation clause which would limit large commercial organisations to a total of 5MWp within the scheme paying the appropriate aggregated FiT rate .... job done, small companies such as ASG would need to change their business plan a little, large companies such as British Gas quickly loose interest in making a killing in the 'rent-a-roof' sector, installation prices to consumers will likely fall due to the focus on commercial competition .... and various corporate shareholders and employees will not see 'banker style' bonuses and dividends.

It is as a result of poorly drafted legislation, commercial greed and lack of proper and timely regulation that we have the current economic downturn, I'd rather see the remaining manufacturing sector companies stay in the UK than be driven overseas by exorbitant energy costs .... there is a difference between 29.3p/kWh and 41.3p/kWh if you think about it ......

Regards

csae

Typo???...You just added a whole sentence with a link?

zeupater

csae wrote: »

Typo???...You just added a whole sentence with a link?

That's correct .... but the sentence was added quickly for clarification after reading through the posted content and realising that I'd intended to include it but missed it out ... so that another referencing post wasn't necessary the post was amended and this was done prior to the next post on the thread arriving (if that makes sense) ... just attempting to keep a long post on the thread clear and concise ...

For reference, the added content is the last sentence of the first paragraph .... the change prior to the addition was a typo, as was the one after, note to self - must get the fingers serviced and stop hitting 'Submit' instead of 'Preview' .....

Regards