Free solar power system. Is it a scam?

Cardew

lufc246 wrote: »

Hi,


On an average day we use a steady flow of about 700-900w of electricity, according to our meter, which is 3 tv,s 3 computers and lights etc,

---

Average daylight use should more or less be easily covered by the panels.

By the time your panels are fitted, you might cover your 700-900w for an hour or two around noon(on average)

However your daylight use won't be covered by the panels - even in high summer. Look at the output figures people with the ASG system have given earlier in this thread e.g. on a dull July day producing 300w.

The important statistic - the only one that matters with an ASG system - is how many of approx 3,000 kWh the panels produce each year, will you use in your house.

Even with small systems most people seem to only use 40% to 50% of the power produced. i.e. around 500 kWh to 600 kWh pa(which presumably is why the Government made the assumption that 50% would be exported.

Personally I would be very surprised if many people with a large ASG system were able to use more than 1,000 kWh a year in their property - say £80 to £100 saving.

joolsleeds

Hi,

As an ASG customer for about 4 months now, we've had 47% of our electricity come off our roof for free!!

I know that we are heading in to shorter days and darker weather, and the 47% won't last, but very happy so far.

Regarding pressure, I never had any pressure to sign (or not) and the fitting was as good as clockwork.

As someone that doesn't have the £,000's to fit panels myself, I'm very happy.

Regarding the comment about prospective house sales, I have found peoples opinion very polarised - people either love them or hate them.
So far, the majority like them, and feel confident that when the time comes, the panels will be a benefit to the process.

Finally, just to confirm, ASG will either leave the panels in place at the end of the 25 years, or remove them FOC.

lufc246 wrote: »

Hi,

Why would it leave you with obsolete panels on your roof ? The agreement states that the panels can either remain on your roof as your property or they will be removed free of charge by ASG, your choice.
ASG informed us of the relevant fixing dates before we signed up but I thought that was great efficiency. Obviously like you we could cancel at any time.
On an average day we use a steady flow of about 700-900w of electricity, according to our meter, which is 3 tv,s 3 computers and lights etc, only more when we boil a kettle put the iron on. we only ever go over 3kw when we use the iron and kettle together. Average daylight use should more or less be easily covered by the panels.
Regarding the saving, any saving is good in my eyes, no risk here, its FREE
Anyway mine are been fitted 3rd week in Sept so feel free to ask any questions.

Cardew

joolsleeds wrote: »

Hi,

As an ASG customer for about 4 months now, we've had 47% of our electricity come off our roof for free!!

I know that we are heading in to shorter days and darker weather, and the 47% won't last, but very happy so far.

.

47% of ????? i.e. how many kWh have you used in the house?

How have you measured what you have used in the house?

joolsleeds

Yes.

I will try and pull the figures together....however..method used:

I have an Owl meter which measures total consumption of electricity within the house, and deduct the units clocked up on the electricity meter. Difference = the free electricity.

On an 'average' day we use about 12 units of electricity, and the meter usually moves by about 7 units. We've changed our consumption pattern to run the washer and dishwasher through the day, but other than that no other significant changes.

I know that this is not absolutely exact, what with the accuracy of the owl, and roundings, but its indicative, and IMO reasonably accurate over the 4 months...... or have I missed something?

Doc_N

joolsleeds wrote: »

I have an Owl meter which measures total consumption of electricity within the house, and deduct the units clocked up on the electricity meter. Difference = the free electricity.

I have a device similar to the Owl (Current Cost, free from British Gas a while back) and it's impossible to tell from it whether it's recording power used or power going into the grid. It can be reading 1kw, but that could mean a net usage of 1kw (3kw being used, less 2kw from the panels) or 1kw going into the grid (3kw from the panels, less 2kw being used).

Given that we're talking AC here, isn't it going to be impossible with all these meters to measure actual usage once panels are connected?

Or am I missing some very basic point?

Cardew

The only way to know how much is used in the house is to have an export meter. Then it is a simple case of subtracting that figure from the total generated by the panels. e.g. panels generate 3,156 kWh - 2,456 kWh exported - so 700 kWh used in the house.

McFi5 who posts here has had a system for a couple of years and has such a metering arrangement. His wife and 2 small children are at home all day and he uses around 500 kWh pa I believe in his house and that sort of figure seems to be typical.

For interest(from an earlier post on MSE) this is the sort of variation in output over the year. This is for a 4 kWp system in SW london so should be about 15% higher than those in the ASG catchment area.

The first column is monthly average generated in kWh; the second the daily average.
Jan 127 4.1
Feb 184 6.6
Mar 274 8.8
Apr 389 13.0
May 449 14.5
Jun 428 14.3
Jul 455 14.7
Aug 422 13.6
Sep 320 10.7
Oct 238 7.7
Nov 146 4.9
Dec 91 2.9

Yearly average 293 kWh per month 9.6 kWh per day
Total yearly production (kWh) 3521

Interesting to note that the output in high summer is 5 times as much as December.

XRayDave

That's an interesting set of figures there Cardew, thanks for posting.

I have two home energy monitors, one on the feed from the electricty board and one on the feed from the PV inverter in an attempt to work out how much energy is being consumed from each source. It's not easy - because the electricty board sensor measures the flow back to the grid (if any) as has been mentioned. I don't want an export meter fitted because I like the idea of the current disc meter going backwards on occasion!

I have meticuously measured the output of the panels since getting them installed (well, 2 weeks after when I got the meters) and the average daily figure I have for June, July and August are:

June 16.51 kWh / day
July 12.37 kWh / day
Aug 12.88 kWh / day

and so far this month ...

Sep 12.63 kWh / day.

I reckon since fitting that the panels have produced over 1200 kWh of electricity. Assuming a 50% usage rate (a common estimate) this equates to 600 kWh or a saving of £54 so far. To say I'm delighted is an understatement.

I fully expect to see a fall-off in the amount of power produced by the panels in the coming weeks and months - sadly.

XRayDave

Cardew

XRayDave wrote: »

That's an interesting set of figures there Cardew, thanks for posting.


I reckon since fitting that the panels have produced over 1200 kWh of electricity. Assuming a 50% usage rate (a common estimate) this equates to 600 kWh or a saving of £54 so far. To say I'm delighted is an understatement.



XRayDave

Hi,
The 1200 kWh for 3 summer months is what would be expected.

However your 'assumption' that 50% has been used in the house is just that, an assumption!! Even then the assumption is 50% of the annual output - not 50% of the summers output.


The assumed 50% rate is to cover those small PV systems of 1 kWp to 2 kWp that were very common a couple of years ago. Mc5Fi who posts on here has a 1.44 kWp system and even with a wife and 2 children at home all day only uses about 500 kWh per year in the house. It is much more difficult to use 50% of the output on large systems.

So I really would be very surprised if you managed to use 600 kWh in 3 months!

joolsleeds

Cardew/Others...

Can I please check if you think my method of calculating energy harvested off the roof is correct as per my previous post?

As mentioned, my Owl meter measures the total consumption within the house and my electricity meter measures the electricity charged. I have tested that the Owl is not measuring the net consumption, by observing the consumption when the electric shower is running, during the day, and at night, with the owl showing ~8.5 irrespective of day or night (assuming that's the only appliance running)

I there for deduct the meter reading from the owl reading, and that's what I've saved.

I know that the Owl is probably not all that accurate, but good enough for a guide, I would have thought?

Thanks

Cardew

joolsleeds wrote: »

Cardew/Others...

Can I please check if you think my method of calculating energy harvested off the roof is correct as per my previous post?

As mentioned, my Owl meter measures the total consumption within the house and my electricity meter measures the electricity charged. I have tested that the Owl is not measuring the net consumption, by observing the consumption when the electric shower is running, during the day, and at night, with the owl showing ~8.5 irrespective of day or night (assuming that's the only appliance running)

I there for deduct the meter reading from the owl reading, and that's what I've saved.

I know that the Owl is probably not all that accurate, but good enough for a guide, I would have thought?

Thanks

I really don't know how the ASG system is wired, so can't comment.

However even if it is a valid form of measurement, it is still very much 'wet finger' in the air as you are basing everything on the fact that you 'normally use 12 kWh' in a day.

If your meter 'moves by 7 kWh' your assumption that the panels are providing 5 kWh might well be the case, although the Owl type meters are notoriously inaccurate at low consumption.

The other factor is that your 3.3 kWp system will produce around 3kW on a sunny late June day around noon. A day later, if cloudy, it could well be 1kW.

I read earlier in this thread that ASG will show you how to connect your Owl to their installation to monitor the exported electricity. So knowing how much electricity has been generated, and how much exported, you can calculate how much has been used in the house. e.g. 400 kWh generated and 300 kWh exported in a month means 100 kWh used in the house.

There an exchange of posts earlier in this thread with ASG where I surmised that I thought people would do well if they used 1,000 kWh pa with the ASG system, and that figure wasn't disputed.