Free solar power system. Is it a scam?

The_Green_Hornet

What I don't understand is why, after 18 months from the introduction of FITs, the Energy Savings Trust are still using "estimates" and "averages". Surely there is enough data out there from the 100,000+ Solar PV installations for them to publish more realistic figures.

Equaliser123

The_Green_Hornet wrote: »

What I don't understand is why, after 18 months from the introduction of FITs, the Energy Savings Trust are still using "estimates" and "averages". Surely there is enough data out there from the 100,000+ Solar PV installations for them to publish more realistic figures.

Because the weather isn't the same year-on-year.

zeupater

Equaliser123 wrote: »

Because the weather isn't the same year-on-year.

.... and some claim £200/£280/£350/£400 and I think the highest claim on this forum so far is ~£511 .....

The main problem is that many see all savings on a year-on-year consumption comparison basis as being due to the installation of pv, whereas pv has really made people more energy aware .... the only way of really knowing what the effect of pv is would be to install export meters ...

HTH
Z

noncom_2

Anyone on a Standard Tariff in my area would save 14.95p per unit (Tier 2 price over 728 units per year, Tier 1 is 18.66).

We are with Ecotricity, whose tariffs match the Regional Suppliers' Standard Tariff, therefore this is what we save on electricity consumed directly from our panels.

Now, you can all jump up and down (as some have done before) and call me an idiot for paying so much, and suggest that I have no place on a "money saving website", but the fact is that there are some people here whose Green intentions do actually stretch to choosing to pay more for their energy in the knowledge that the profits go to building more renewable supplies, and not filling the pockets of wealthy shareholders.

I would have used Ecotricity regardless of whether or not I had the solar panels, so I do regard that 15p per unit approx as genuinely what the panels are saving me.

Having said that, as was said above, without an export meter I have no way of accurately telling how much this is. I try to skew my use of electricity during sunlight hours, but make no claims as to how much it's saved me.

Cardew

noncom wrote: »

Now, you can all jump up and down (as some have done before) and call me an idiot for paying so much, and suggest that I have no place on a "money saving website", but the fact is that there are some people here whose Green intentions do actually stretch to choosing to pay more for their energy in the knowledge that the profits go to building more renewable supplies, and not filling the pockets of wealthy shareholders.

Nobody called you an idiot, they simply stated that your personal definition and adherence to a 'Green' principle is atypical. Less than 0.03% of accounts are with your company.

British Gas Standard rate is 12.24p/kWh(before discounts) in my area, and for those to whom money saving is the motivation, 10p/kWh is easily obtained.

larkim

It all comes down to house prices though - if something saves me £20 for eternity, and costs me nothing, why wouldn't I do it?

There's a different argument about the policy which creates such an economy, but that's a different story!

Matt

Cardew

larkim wrote: »

It all comes down to house prices though - if something saves me £20 for eternity, and costs me nothing, why wouldn't I do it?



Matt

Then how about 1 penny a year?;) £1 a year?

You sign a legal agreement for 25 years to allow a firm to make scores of thousands of pounds out of using your roof and you get a pittance!

Some might consider that exploitation!

thenudeone

larkim wrote: »

It all comes down to house prices though - if something saves me £20 for eternity, and costs me nothing, why wouldn't I do it?

Because if you come to sell your house the next purchaser may not think that the "cost" of having panels on the roof + having to allow access to someone else is worth it for a relatively small saving.

If the panels were owned by the householder, they could expect to see income + savings of £1300-£1500 pa (pre-FIT changes) which is quite a sum and IMO enough to outweigh the visual impact of the panels. I'm not sure £50-£100 is, although for a "green" buyer it could still be.

If you don't expect to move for 25 years there's no problem.

ctdctd

Cardew wrote: »

British Gas Standard rate is 12.24p/kWh(before discounts) in my area, and for those to whom money saving is the motivation, 10p/kWh is easily obtained.

Not sure I agree with this after the current price rises - I am on the cheapest dual fuel tariff available in my area given my typical use (Bedfordshire, 2500kWh PA). My electricity is single tier 12.32p / unit.

Options for a lower unit cost gave a higher standing charge and were more expensive. Tier 1 / 2 tariffs were also more expensive.

rogerblack

thenudeone wrote: »

Because if you come to sell your house the next purchaser may not think that the "cost" of having panels on the roof + having to allow access to someone else is worth it for a relatively small saving.

In addition.
At the moment, panels producing 4kW cost about 5K, and need a 3 meter by 8 meter or so space, and stand out very dramatically visually.

Consider for example:


These are 'building integrated' tiles - which can look rather more seamless than current installs.


http://www.dowsolar.com/innovation/seamless.htm

I think it's a pretty safe bet that the aesthetics, as well as the efficiencies of solar panels will likely improve, with (at some cost in efficiency) a mild variation in appearance, from matt to gloss, from black to dark blues and browns.

Might solar panels depress the value of your house in 2 years? Possibly not.

In 15 years, when they are looking very old-tech, and preventing a buyer refreshing the building by swapping out the roof for a solar one - perhaps.

In addition to possible legislative and solar-technological issues, there are other reasons why people might choose in the future to upgrade.

At the moment, batteries to store a meaningful amount of power, that can take a decade or more cycling, are very, very expensive.
For example, I've recently purchased a storage battery that is guaranteed for 1000 cycles, to store 1kWh.

The total value of this battery is 100 pounds, and the electricity it stores (at current prices) is also 100 pounds.
So, even if I got the electricity free, it would not be worth using it at current prices.
However, there are a number of chemistries that look like they may in the near future be likely to be able to economically do this, and make going (largely) 'off grid' possible for a large number of people.

To do this meaningfully requires a generation ability of several times the daily demand, so as part of a combined property upgrade, it might make a lot of sense.
Replace the roof, add solar integrated roofing, superinsulate the top of the roof, so that there is more usable space and lower thermal losses, add a battery so as to be 90% grid independent.