Free solar power system. Is it a scam?

larkim

I won't libel the particular company doing the installation, but the communication between their teams is appalling!

Scaffold arrived on Friday last week, after arranging with the installers that they could come on Tuesday (today) rather than Saturday (their request, seemed it was more convenient for them and no particular concern for me).

Of course, on Sunday, who should turn up but the scaffold company with a brief to take it down! They soon spotted that the installation hadn't actually taken place, so they left it in situ!

On to today. Roof engineer arrived with all the kit. First conversation "THere should be three of us, looks like its just me today, so there might be a delay". Second conversation "*%$£ing scaffolders, they've not added a winching point so I won't be able to get the panels up on the roof without that." Then electrician arrives - actually, no problems at all with him, very flexible etc etc.

All going to plan. And then the roofing engineer comes to the door with a sorrowful look. "I've hit a bit of a problem, I was putting these bolts into the roof [its a slate roof, so no hangars permitted] and couldn't find the ends of them in the loft. Hadn't realised that the pitch is directly into the bedrooms for the first 2 feet or so!" so now I've got about 14 holes into the ceiling of my boys bedrooms! Mistakes happen, not too concerned about that, and I'm sure they will be rectified properly (new slates are already in place). As I left I was advised that more people were possibly on the way, but no news on the winch for the scaffold!!

Could be running into tomorrow at this rate...

That'll teach me for having a RaR install

Matt

larkim

I don't know whether we ended up with the last Eon free scheme in the country, but we must be fairly close!

All was completed around 2pm on Friday, and is all up and running. Electrics all look very neat and tidy, and the team installing (according to my wife) were very pleasant and helpful. They left a pack of info about the installation, but apart from an amusing section about decommissioning (in 25 years time, I very much doubt that their call centre will still be there!) that didn't tell me much.

Anyway, the kit appears to be 2 strings of Trina 190w panels, 16 in all, coupled to a Fronius IG30 inverter. I'm looking forward to seeing what the house looks like once the scaffold has gone, as it was still there when I left this morning.

Matt

billpine

My head is mashed, over an hour looking at this thread and I've hit the wall. What was the final word on "A Shade Greener" all good or a bargepole situation?

Thanks Bill

Cardew

billpine wrote: »

My head is mashed, over an hour looking at this thread and I've hit the wall. What was the final word on "A Shade Greener" all good or a bargepole situation?

Thanks Bill

Seems to be about the best of the Rent a Roof companies; virtually nothing negative about them as a company.

HOWEVER

Many people think it is a poor idea to use any Rent - Roof company. The rewards are simply not worth the disadvantages and why should any company legally have the right to your roof and get the vast majority of the income.

Many others think the concept of Rent a Roof companies is flawed and the Government should never have allowed them to exploit a loophole and get huge subsidies that are paid for by the rest of us electricity customers in higher bills; the vast majority of those customers couldn't have solar if they wanted.

billpine

Cardew wrote: »

Seems to be about the best of the Rent a Roof companies; virtually nothing negative about them as a company.

HOWEVER

Many people think it is a poor idea to use any Rent - Roof company. The rewards are simply not worth the disadvantages and why should any company legally have the right to your roof and get the vast majority of the income.

Many others think the concept of Rent a Roof companies is flawed and the Government should never have allowed them to exploit a loophole and get huge subsidies that are paid for by the rest of us electricity customers in higher bills; the vast majority of those customers couldn't have solar if they wanted.

Fair comment but are there any disadvantages? As I read the deal you get upto 37% off the electric which equates to a saving and in this climate that should be a good thing...

larkim

The main perceived disadvantage appears to be the thought that a house with PV on it (particularly one where the kit is owned by someone else and they also have a right to keep it on your roof for 25 years) will be of a lower resale value than one without.

Personally, I've got a RaR setup on my roof, and I don't see that - I think it actually enhances my house's value; it fits in nicely aesthetically, is maintained by someone else for free, cost me absolutely nothing, saves me c.10%+ off my electricity bill and means that my house's dependence on main generated electricity is reduced by c.25% net. I'm no evangelist for it, but I couldn't see any reason why I personally shouldn't take it up, as I hadn't got £10k to fund solar myself.

Matt

M4ximillion

billpine wrote: »

Fair comment but are there any disadvantages? As I read the deal you get upto 37% off the electric which equates to a saving and in this climate that should be a good thing...

Cardew and the others have lots of arguments against RaR schemes, every argument under the sun. The 'anti' brigade used to go on and on and on about only saving £70 a year - quoting the Energy Saving Trust as being the authority on the matter (not that they ever actually said that but nothing wrong with a bit of misquote from time to time) - but now that the Energy Saving Trust have changed their estimates (following a bit more logical research) and increased that sum to between £90 - £180 for a 2.9kw system the anti brigade turned against the Energy Saving Trust and said they didnt know what they were talking about. You should speak to people who have a free system - A Shade Greener will put you in touch with as many of their customers as you want - thats what they did for me. Ive had mine nearly a year and have saved over £200 and am a very happy bunny:j A house down our road has just been sold with a free system and it was only on the market for about two months. Scaremongering is rife about free solar.

billpine

M4ximillion wrote: »

Scaremongering is rife about free solar.

Definitely with you on that one.

From reading other reports on the pro's and cons there seems to be a big split for and against with some saying it's a better deal if you spend 10-12k on your own system and I've no doubt it is but average Joe public just hasn't got 10-12k....

zeupater

M4ximillion wrote: »

Cardew and the others have lots of arguments against RaR schemes, every argument under the sun. The 'anti' brigade used to go on and on and on about only saving £70 a year - quoting the Energy Saving Trust as being the authority on the matter (not that they ever actually said that but nothing wrong with a bit of misquote from time to time) - but now that the Energy Saving Trust have changed their estimates (following a bit more logical research) and increased that sum to between £90 - £180 for a 2.9kw system the anti brigade turned against the Energy Saving Trust and said they didnt know what they were talking about. You should speak to people who have a free system - A Shade Greener will put you in touch with as many of their customers as you want - thats what they did for me. Ive had mine nearly a year and have saved over £200 and am a very happy bunny:j A house down our road has just been sold with a free system and it was only on the market for about two months. Scaremongering is rife about free solar.

I absolutely love that post, but not quite as much as I love the consistancy of the EST themselves, and of course, the selective nature of the post referenced above .....

I just ran my 4kWp system through the EST Solar Energy Calculator (http://www.energysavingtrust.org.uk/Generate-your-own-energy/Solar-panels-PV/Solar-Energy-Calculator) ... the result, "money saved on bill = £65". To see if it makes any difference, I do the same with a £2400 annual electricity bill with a 3kWp system on a 35degree roof facing South and get a saving of £91/year through generating 2541kWh ... so I look for their information .... on their Feed-In Tariffs explanation they now say for a typical 2.9kWp "£90 a year reduction of current electricity bills" (http://www.energysavingtrust.org.uk/Generate-your-own-energy/Financial-incentives/Feed-In-Tariffs-scheme-FITs) ... then I look at their Free solar PV offers information which says "
The proportion used in the home may be as low as 25% for a typical PV system, but could be as high as 50% for some users.* With a typical PV system this would mean likely annual savings of £90 to £180." (Typical is stated as being 2.9kWp) (http://www.energysavingtrust.org.uk/Generate-your-own-energy/Solar-panels-PV/Free-solar-PV-offers).

Now let's look at an annual saving of £180 based on 50% of generation being consumed on a 2.9kWp system .... 2.9kWp system output (2541kWh/3)*2.9 = 2456kWh/year*50% = 1228kWh/year .... so to save £180 the tier2 electricity price would need to be 14.7p (£180/1228kWh), which is over 43% more than we're paying before discounts, and is actually higher than our average cost/kWh for tier1 & tier2 combined.

Now, let's look at the energy generation which would be necessary to save £200 at current market tier2 pricing, which I'll take as being 10.25p/kWh(Gross) for this exercise, because that's higher than we're paying. £200/0.1025 = 1951kWh of generation, which would be 100% of the generation of a 2.3kWp system ((1951/2541)*3), or whatever percentage you could extrapolate from a larger system ... eg 57.5% ((100/4)*2.3) of the generation of a 4kWp system producing 3393kWh/year((1951/2.3)*4)

HTH
Z

Cardew

M4ximillion wrote: »

Cardew and the others have lots of arguments against RaR schemes, every argument under the sun. The 'anti' brigade used to go on and on and on about only saving £70 a year - quoting the Energy Saving Trust as being the authority on the matter (not that they ever actually said that but nothing wrong with a bit of misquote from time to time) - but now that the Energy Saving Trust have changed their estimates (following a bit more logical research) and increased that sum to between £90 - £180 for a 2.9kw system the anti brigade turned against the Energy Saving Trust and said they didnt know what they were talking about. You should speak to people who have a free system - A Shade Greener will put you in touch with as many of their customers as you want - thats what they did for me. Ive had mine nearly a year and have saved over £200 and am a very happy bunny:j A house down our road has just been sold with a free system and it was only on the market for about two months. Scaremongering is rife about free solar.

Your selective quoting, out of context, of EST(the £90 to £180 bit) has been nicely ripped apart by Zeupater above.

You also have no idea how much you have saved, but just determined to justify your decision - for which there is no need.

You have conveniently forgotten Sarah Dyson's(ASG Director) input about savings earlier in this post.

Also read how much ASG claim for savings here:

http://ashadegreener.co.uk/energy-study/

i.e. they just give percentages(not £££s) of what people claim they have saved with absolutely no scientific evidence at all.

37% saving off a 'what size bill'?

How many had backward running meters?

If people 'invest' in any product, it is human nature to 'want' it to be a success and defend their choice. -just as you were determined that you would be saving £200 a year before your system was fitted - and lo and behold that is what you have achieved - well done!

Go to the motoring section of MSE and see posts from people who have bought a £15 device that consists of magnets strapped to fuel lines that have reduced their fuel consumption by 30%(It lines up the mollycules(sic) for easier combustion - also works for Oil CH)

EDIT
The only disagreement with the EST is on their use of a figure of 14p/kWh in their savings. That is a figure that takes into account Standing charges/Tier 1 prices. The average electricity price of tier 2 electricity - especially after discounts - is around 10p/kWh so exaggerating savings by 40%. (any savings will be at tier 2 prices)