another redundancy question please...

dmbaxt

Hi All,
Long story so here it goes..... where hubby works the work has dried up over the last couple of months, as it has at a lot of places. his empolyer kept telling them that they didn't want to make any redundancies and that they would weather the storm.

A couple of weeks ago (end of October) the owner had a meeting with all of the staff and told them that 30 people were to be made redundant and they would be having a 30 day consultation period. There isn't a union at his work and as far as he knows no representatives had been appointed - this was the first anyone had heard about redundancies.

He was called into the office shortly after and given a letter saying his job was one of those at risk. He along with all of the others selected were then sent home on full pay on 'gardening leave'.

He had another meeting the following week whereby they told him how much redundancy he would be entitled to (2 weeks plus 2 weeks PILON and outstanding holiday pay) and that he would be finishing on 23rd Nov the day the consultation period finishes. He has applied for other jobs but they have told him that if he finds one during the consultation period then they will class him as leaving not them making redundancy - which we understand is correct.

Hubby spoke to his friend who also works there and has had one of these letters they have told him redundancy and lieu of notice are one in the same thing and that the gardening leave they are currently on is their notice period. Hubby told him that PILON and redundancy are 2 very different things but he's concerned about whether they can call the gardening leave his notice period as they are still supposedly under consultation... is this true?

I've emailed CAB and they've sent me exactly the same info as on the website so haven't answered the question really. I also asked them if the company had followed the correct procedure or not in regard to the consultation period?

Any help would be much appreciated as I'm getting more than a little confused now

jazzyman01

They would be on very sticky ground to suggest that they are counting the consultation period as notice period. The cost the the business could be 90 days pay to each individual affected.

Other issues. If his job was at risk, were there a number of people doing the same job and therefore the requirement for selection? If so, has he been informed?

Where more than 20 potential redundancies there is the right to have elected reps and therefore they are already failing on that point.

As he is only getting 2 weeks redundancy, assume he has only just done 2 years service??

pelirocco

They havent followed proceedures , you should contact Acas

dmbaxt

Jazzyman01 he's been there for just over 2 1/2 years - company's only been going 3 years. He asked to see his score sheet to see what the selection process was

Pete111

Sounds like they are trying to follow the process in part (30 day consultation is correct for 30 redundancies) but falling down rather re reps, selection and notice etc .

Pilon/Garden leave can start no earlier than from from date the redundancy is confirmed (ie 23rd) not from the start of the consultation as Jazzyman has confirmed. Make sure employees push for the former as with garden leave they are technically barred from working elsewhere until this is up and it would be churlish for the company to insist on this a redundancy situation.

P

jazzyman01

Although he has done 2.5 years, only completed years count for redundancy payments.

dmbaxt

Thanks for the help so far everyone. It's really helped get everything sorted in my head (not an easy task lol).
Pete111 he's already on gardening leave - they sent all of them home the day the consultation period started.
He's found out today that the remaining staff are now working overtime..... so they've sent 30 people home wondering if they've still got a job (which they have already told OH that he hasn't) and letting the rest of them do overtime to cover it. He's not a happy bunny at the mo, but that's life I suppose. :rolleyes:

getmore4less

Pete111 wrote: »

Sounds like they are trying to follow the process in part (30 day consultation is correct for 30 redundancies) but falling down rather re reps, selection and notice etc .

Pilon/Garden leave can start no earlier than from from date the redundancy is confirmed (ie 23rd) not from the start of the consultation as Jazzyman has confirmed. Make sure employees push for the former as with garden leave they are technically barred from working elsewhere until this is up and it would be churlish for the company to insist on this a redundancy situation.

P

I thought you could put anyone on garden leave as long as you still pay out any contactual/statutary payments when you actualy put on notice to terminate

As long as he gets his full notices as PILON extra garden leave for those at risk during consultation is probably OK and desirable to reduce disruption.

This is what one of my employers used to do while trying to find alternative jobs for people.

This does not excuse the other process issues identified.

Do not tell the company if he gets another offer try to negotiate a start date that fits in with the redundancy.

jazzyman01

Has the owner started any process yet in regard to selection of reps or even consultation on individual basis?

Are the 30 that have been sent home the only ones doing that particular job? The reason I ask is that if only 30 from say 60 doing the same or similar roles have been sent home on gardening leave, there is also the challenge on fair selection ie why these 30 and not others? This would suggest that the owner has preselected and predetermined who is going which also falls foul of the process because he has not involved staff when he was aware of the need of redundancies.

dmbaxt

jazzyman01 wrote: »

Has the owner started any process yet in regard to selection of reps or even consultation on individual basis?

Are the 30 that have been sent home the only ones doing that particular job? The reason I ask is that if only 30 from say 60 doing the same or similar roles have been sent home on gardening leave, there is also the challenge on fair selection ie why these 30 and not others? This would suggest that the owner has preselected and predetermined who is going which also falls foul of the process because he has not involved staff when he was aware of the need of redundancies.

They haven't selected any reps at all. They called a big meeting and announced redundanies. Straight after this they started calling staff into the office. About an hour after they called OH in and give him a letter stating his job was one of those at risk and that further meetings would take place. He was then sent home on gardening leave for the 30 day consultation period (on full pay) straight after the first meeting - as were the others who received a letter.

He worked on a job with another chap doing the same thing but he was the one chosen. Some of the jobs had more than 1 person doing the same thing where one had to be chosen over the other.

He's had a second meeting whereby they've told him roughly what he should be entitled to. OH asked to see his score sheet which they have used to make the selections - OH said that they had missed off other skills that he had and asked if this would make any difference to his selection to which they replied no. He told them he had already checked the Government Website to see what he was entitled to money wise and he said they looked a bit suprised about that!

They told him that he would receive something through the post regarding the 3rd and final meeting on the 23rd when he would receive his redundancy cheque. So he knew from this meeting he would definatley be going on this date. He asked what would happen if he found another job before the 23rd and they told him that they would then class him as leaving and would not recieve redundancy payment.

jazzyman01

Just to clarify. You said your OH was called into the office shortly after the announcement - is this hours or days?

When he challenged the scoring, did they state that the additional information would not make a difference at the same meeting or after a break to check for a few hours or days?

The company appear to be trying to follow the guidelines in meeting with affected staff but it looks like window dressing.