what age does a child have a legal opinion?

mini_mad_dad

My 9 year girl lives with her mum, i get to see her every 2 weeks. Pickup on a friday about 8.30pm and return on sunday 7.30pm (but last 2 years about 5.30 due to travelling 134 miles with my 2 y.o.). the reason for 8.30 is my ex insists that our 9y.o has to go swimming, now i dont disagree with the fact kids need to learn to swim so i would not take that away from her. but as there so many other days in the week, whats wrong with one of them? i've asked the ex to change time and day but she says thats all thats availible in the area that she lives.i been asking for a earlier time to pick up my daughter for about 2 years explaining my reasons. like cost of child care for the baby as i not wont to drag her up and down the motorway for 5/6 hours. getting back at 10.30 to 11.00 at night with a 9y.o and 2y.o is what i consider to late for kids to be up at.(or am i wrong again). and all i get told is i choose to move so far away...(yes thats true, but she decided to end our marriage and go of wiyh my mate). which my 9y.o is scared off. he wont hurt her because he learnt about karma a few years ago.
But the twist is that my 9y.o says she want to come and live with me, her mum tells her if she does live with daddy then she wont be able to she her or her little brother. and the is no way going to give her up willinly.so i'm wondering if my 9y.o could choose for herself legaly?
i personally dont mind the time and distance i have to travel to see my girl, but then i would do what ever it takes to see both my girls safe n happy. what can i do?

missk_ensington

I would imagine your daughter would need to be 16 however you would have to bttle it out in the family courts. However, the judge would say move closer, okay maybe not down the same street but perhaps an hour away instead of 5!

You could get joint custody but a judge would never grant that when you live so far away. This child shouldn't be used as a bargaining tool which I suspect she is, you should arrange a time to all sit down-you your ex and your daughter and discuss what is best, what everyone would like to happen, and how to you're all going to make it happen.

Courts are costly and emotionally draining and the child often gets used as a pawn for 'winning' the case.

Murtle

Mediation sounds like a good way forward. AFAIK a child in divorce cases doesn't have to be 16 to help decide where is best for them, but it will be harder to overturn a judges previous decision if they awarded custody to the mother (but not impossible) I'm trying to think of organisations that will help in this instance but am failing at the moment!!

hobo28

I went thru a custody battle with my ex last year. My daughter was also 9 at the time. At that age, the courts may listen to the childs wish but it will not be the determining factor. If she was older then yes (say 13+). Plus courts never split siblings.

You don't see your daughter often enough and live too far away for a court to seriously consider a shared residence order. If you took it to court and ended up with a contact order then you would then be legally a second class parent. Don't do it!

I also think you have to be careful about what your 9yr old is telling you about wanting to live with you. At her age, she may be telling you what she thinks will make you happy. I'm sure she won't be telling her mum that she'd rather be living with you. My daughter tells me she doesn't like going to stay at mummy's but she seems happy enough when she comes back.

Sorry to sound so negative but as the law stands (and its an !!!), as the non-resident parent you don't have much choice but to suck it up.

Yes, 10/11pm is late but they can sleep in the car. Not ideal but the world isn't.

Lillibet_2

AFAIK there is no set age at which a child has a say in their arrangments but a judge would normally ask their wishes & reasons from 12 onwards, although obviously this isn't the only or deciding fasctor in any legal outcome. I believe that children younger than this have been able to offer thier opinions but it depends on the maturity of the child & the exact situation.
To be honest, IMHO, it doesn't sound like you need a change of living arrangements rather than a new agreement about how much time & when you spend time with her. Custody orders are not set for life & can be reviewed, and in most cases are expected to be amended, as the child grows as their needs will change. Have a phone conversation with a solicitor (should be free at inital enquiry stage) to see what they say.

HTH;)

mookiandco

in deciding whether child is mature enough to give their opinion and for their wishes and feelings to be taken into account the court will use the test of Gillick competence. Google the case of gillick to find outmore, but essentially each child is looked at as an individual in deciding if they are mature enough. 9 is not nescessarily too young. 11 is usually the starting point as a rule.

regarding residence, it is highly unlikely a judge will tell you to move closer. this is not in their remit and you are entitled to live where you want. you could make an application to the court for residence and a CAFCASS officer (like a court social worker) would interview mother, father and child and produce a report to the court.

Based on what youve said I think it unlikely you would get residence as mother has been primary carer for so long. However, you may want to consider make an application for a defined contact order. A CAFCASS officer can do a report on the issue of contact and will produce a report as to what is in the best interests of your daughter.

If you are on a low income or on income support you may be entitled to legal aid.

Bossyboots

Thank the lord for mookiandco putting some facts and not guesses. I agree with what has been said.

hobo28 - I don't know where you get the idea from that the court never splits siblings. It is not the first choice but every situation is different and it can and will be done if appropriate.

I too would offer caution on whether the little girl really does want to leave her mum but if she is frightened of mother's partner then there may be issues to be resolved. Children often think the grass is greener with the other parent though and she is a little young to understand the implications of what she is saying.

It can be difficult to arrange swimming. I know our local pool has swimming classes set by ability and if you move up a class it invariably means you have to go on a different day or time so it may well be right that the time for swimming is the only available.

If there is a compelling situation, you could be granted a residence order (if you cannot agree between you where the little girl should live) but in the ordinary course of events a court would prefer not to change the status quo.

There is no entitlement to free legal advice for an initial enquiry and where I live, it is not available at all. If you are on qualifying benefits or your financial situation qualifies you, you would be able to get some initial advice under the legal aid scheme but you would need to attend a solicitor for an appointment for that. Otherwise, many firms do a reduced fee for a first interview which might be enough to get the advice you need.

hobo28

bossyboots wrote:

hobo28 - I don't know where you get the idea from that the court never splits siblings. It is not the first choice but every situation is different and it can and will be done if appropriate.

Ok, never is perhaps too strong a word. Virtually never.

In this situation though, I really don't see an upside to making it a big deal. He currently has regular contact albeit not at ideal times. That will be less of an issue as the kids grow. Daughter may not even want to go swimming in a couple of years time! Kids can be fickle.

As for being scared of the ex's BF, unless he has evidence of wrongdoing then you are again on very shakey ground. My partner KNEW her ex took drugs but without proof was threatened with contempt of court for the "allegations". Plus, any decent solicitor would argue if you suspected that, why have you never done anything until now. At the end of the day, if you trust your ex to raise your daughter, you have to accept who she thinks is a suitable person to be with your child.

Best case scenario, mini_mad_dad gets a couple of extra hours. Bear in mind that this will be harder to drive due to rush hour. Worst case (and all too common), ex will withhold contact and it will be an uphill battle to regain it. Probably end up with a contact order which is hardly ever properly enforced and more than likely thousands of pounds out of pocket.

I've been on both sides of the fence as a single parent and can understand where he is coming from but I've also seen the law in action or more properly put INaction.

mini_mad_dad

the reason for leaving it so long was she told me it would be a temporary thing. And after 7 years of them pushing around orders that can and cant do last miniute change of plans, and me doing everythings she asks of me i'm now fed up and want things to change. I dont feel that i'm being unreasonable asking to pick her up at a earlier time. she dont take my responsibilities as a parent seriously, like when she is ill i'm not told, she been having trouble at school and never told...theres loads of things and i know that i'm prolly sound like i'm ranting but i'm not, i would just like to live a normal easy life.And now its becoming an issue due to trying to arrange child care for my 2y.o that lives with me. as for husband my ex mate, i really dont have a problem with (for me its water under the bridge). but as for him, well i'm not allowed to sit next to my ex an talk about my daughters well being at the pool or anyhere (it's him that has the problem), all talking is kept to minimum on his say so (tho he never is there to stop it but his sister reports back to him). making things difficult to actully try to mediate things...
and it only cause my 9y.o says she want to move up here that i ask, as much as i love my daughter i really think that she should be with her mum. although there are 3 sex offenders her side of the family. god, i know by the age of 33 i've done some pretty evil things but that makes me sick and worried about her, all be it only 1 of them has minimum contact.
I've asked to sit down and chat about things, and constantly told "well thats the way it is", i've had solicitors send letters and arrangments but after few months things go back to the same way where they pull all the strings.
but would courts not see it better for her to live in a 3 bed owned home as to a 2 bed flat that she has to share with 3y.o step brother that wakes her up, no garden and she not wanna be there?

many thanks to all the above posters...

mamaoba

Do you have parental responsibility? If yes then you can contact her school and doctor informing them of this fact and asking for ALL details of her treatments/parents evenings/progress to be sent to you. You have the right to attend parents evenings and to talk to the teachers directly. same with the doctor/hospital. The onus is on you to keep yourself informed - you don't have to rely on the ex to tell you. You also have a legal right to be consulted as to her choice of secondary school when this comes around.

If you don't have parental responsibility - get it! As the law stands if anything happened to her Mum you would have no more chance of being made her sole carer than a stanger's foster family or her mother's relatives. Unless you have a documented history of being abusive etc the courts WILL award you parental responsibility. To me this is far more important than your existing contact arrangements.

I'm a single parent and there's no way on God's earth I'd want my child in care, hence I have guarduianship docs stored at my solicitors and my relatives just in case I get appendicitis, am in an accident or the worst happens to prevent this. The law can be a total a**** in emergency situations and I'm not prepared to take any chances on my son ending up with strangers via social services.

Re the contact order - I'm not sure whteher going for this would help you tbh - the mother could withhold contact until the case is resolved (wrong but I've seen it happen). I agree that as she grows she may not want to attend swimming lessons .

Could you see if there are saturady morning swimming lessons available near you? This might put stop to this argument in an amicable way. Lots of centres do have classes on Saturay mornings for children. would be much much easier and cheaper than going to court.