Yesterday's farm..what if it comes back?

Davesnave

rhiwfield wrote: »

Davesnave, as for the plasterboard you may have noticed the sting in the tail, apparently as it decomposed it gave off hydrogen sulphide and stank out the market town of Cowbridge! Seems like the future will be rather smelly

And Cowbridge, being one of the most expensive places to live in Wales, would not have been amused, Im sure!:rotfl:

Lotus-eater

Of course anything organic shouldn't be thrown away, it drives me round the bend.

I was watching a (admittedly American) TV kids cartoon yesterday, it was advising kids how to be green, well my DD is already well genned up with clubs at school and things like that.
This program taught how great it was to be green, by scooping up all the leaves and putting them in a dedicated plastic reycling bin, I presume ready to be picked up by a oil eating truck I suspect.
I mean honestly, what chance do we have if the "green" options use even more oil? It is a crazy situation.
There should be no green waste pick up in the UK, deal with it yourself.

Only problem......... too many lazy, ignorant, uninterested people around.


The amount of free energy we get out of oil is unbelieveable, look at Cuba, after the oil stopped, they had to go to small heavily manned nurseries to produce all the food they needed. Our large, one person per ridiculous number of acres farms, just cannot survive without oil.
If the oil runs out, most die, if it doesn't, we carry on as before. Such is life.
Science coming up with something, is really our only hope if oil does run out, a widespread change in public nature I've given up on......... pre oil loss.

Post oil loss, everyone will be clamouring to do anything they can.

Btw, yes urine's great on many things in the garden, I did try and explain on here a while ago, about the total loss system we practice and how reusing your urine kept at least some of the nutrients in your garden, but that's when I got shouted at for being disgusting or something.

Charco_2

Perhaps if you did your business inside and then used buckets to take your "waste" outside for the garden rather than running around naked whizzing on this and then that, crossing your legs and moving to the next crop then your neighbours wouldn't feel the need to at you for the obscenities!

rhiwfield

Lotus eater, thanks for the Cuba comment, I googled this LINK which was eye opening.

I mostly agree with your take on people's attitudes but think that, if Peak Oil can be demonstrated to have occurred, then there will be sufficient people to start making some difference.

Interesting that the Cuban response was substantially community based, and I've a feeling that our current farm ownership system would not survive a post oil crisis. Mind you neither would my weight problem! Another point from the article was how many people had to be trained to grow veg, that strikes home to me as there is little doubt that it takes time and experience to GYO consistently well .

Back to composting, love THIS site!

RAS

I recommend PoC to anyone wanting to think about lower carbon lifestyle. Saw Roberto Perez (one of the stars of PoC) earlier this year and he explained that since the deal with Chavez, people have started to use more fuel again for transport.

There are a number of people now working on this - the Soil Association, the transition network, Heinberg http://transitionculture.org/2008/05/02/richard-heinberg-on-resilient-communities/ and I think the Government is beginning to think about it http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2009/mar/18/perfect-storm-john-beddington-energy-food-climate

At the moment, I think they are too scared to really go fully public; on the current high meat, high dairy and non-seasonal diet it is said that the UK could feed 30m people. On a low meat/dairy seasonal diet the figure would double, not least because half our carbo-hydrate production is fed to livestock at the moment.

However, I was at http://www.transitionnorth.net/ last friday and most people there are trying to address these issues.

Cuba had to return 15-20% of the population to food production and land industries.

It is very hard to assess the exact impact - we know we waste 30% of food we buy and that anything from 12-60% of food grown fails to meet supermarket specifications so much is wasted, so how much of that could be used in an "emergency" is hard to assess. And small-holder produce 20% more per acre than large land holders.

On the other hand we cannot grow or harvest food currently without liquid fuels or synethetic fertilisers. I note that some Danish farmers grow rape seed on 15% of their land and use this to power their equipment. But land used for fuel production is land not used to produce food.

Lotus-eater

Charco wrote: »

Perhaps if you did your business inside and then used buckets to take your "waste" outside for the garden rather than running around naked whizzing on this and then that, crossing your legs and moving to the next crop then your neighbours wouldn't feel the need to at you for the obscenities!

Ahh, could be, not that anyone wouldn't like to see my perfect !!!! running across my veg patch of course!

I really do it in watering cans if you really want to know, the leaf compost takes a load, the comfrey some (which keeps the badgers out as well, as it's on my gardens rear border), compost bins some, crops in summer mainly as well, fruit trees, everything really!

Wonderful stuff the liquid gold.

The only obscenities that have been shouted to me, were on here, when I was advising it was daft to remove any plant waste out of a growing garden or allotment, I explained the total loss system, then went on to say how you can mitigate it a bit by reusing the nutrients in your liquid waste.
Anyone would have thought I'd suggested toasting your neighbours cat on the BBQ......... mind you, post apocalyptic oil wasteland, I'd give that a go as well

You may have noticed I haven't got that much time for people with small minds sorry to hijack your thread rh.

RAS

One of my fellow plot holders can be seen most morning walking in a very stately fashion to the plot with a large clear jug of yellow liquid. It caused a few comments at first but now people seem to have clamed down. Do it myself sometimes but use a non-transparent container.

The only obscenities that have been shouted to me, were on here, when I was advising it was daft to remove any plant waste out of a growing garden or allotment, I explained the total loss system, then went on to say how you can mitigate it a bit by reusing the nutrients in your liquid waste.

Lotus-eater

You should have seen the look of total incomprehension when I made that point to the local Council. They have just introduced a green waste recycling facility and I explained that this was far from green, environmentlaly friendly etc, because it took masses of oil to transport the material to the composter and then masses of oil is used by people going to garden centres to buy compost. Argh.

rhiwfield

RAS, not surprised that a lot more people would be needed to work the land, though I'd expect the government would firstly prioritise existing farmers for oil usage (after armed/vital services and government ministers of course!)

TBH, I'm still not wholly convinced by the transition movement even though I do believe in a lower carbon lifestyle and am trying to make a real effort to reduce energy usage, use of fossil fuels, waste and externally sourced food. My reservations are more a reaction against the arty-f*rty language of positive visioning, inclusion, openness, subsidiarity, psychological models etc. I've read on one or two transition sites that they want to engage more with the average man in the street and it does seem quite middle class and hippyish atm. The other reservation is that I tend to react against people trying to sell me something, whether it be an object or an idea.

Oh and RAS/Lotus Eater, if you're inventive types give some thought to designing:

• manual wood chipper for dealing with hedge cuttings/rose prunings etc. I've got this vision of a large mangle type machine for community use

• his and hers urine collector/garden dispenser

RAS

rhiwfield wrote: »

manual wood chipper for dealing with hedge cuttings/rose prunings etc. I've got this vision of a large mangle type machine for community use

My suspicion is that we will not be chipping these - far too valuable as fuel. After all most people in older times used faggots for cooking and ovens not timber.

rhiwfield wrote: »

his and hers urine collector/garden dispenser

One step up from the old barrel at the street corner (which is what used to happen), I saw a design for a DIY urinal made out of a pop-bottle, halved, with the top inserted into a tube to carry the liquid to a container. It had been carved to provide a lower profile at the front.

choille

I make comfrey foliar feed. I use seaweed on the veg beds every few years - good stuff, I also use well rotted sheep dung. Nothing goes to waste here.

They are starting to teach crofting in some primary schools in the highlands & some have made gardens & they are calling it Plant To Plate, because they are using their own produce - cooking it. They are incorporating all lessons around it eg If we plant one seed potatoe & get twelve potatoes from it, if we plant three potatoes, how many potatoes will we harvest. They are also learning about composting, cooking, use of herbs etc.
One school planted herb beds & invited the community to help themselves & leave a donation - it's working. Good age to get kids interested in food & growing & ecology too.

Too much jiggering about with genetics re live stock. I keep marginalised & rare breeds - they will die out if all crofts & small farms disappear. A lot of these rare breeds have survived because they are hardy & suited to their particular environment, but may not give 'high yields'.
Was at a conference a few months back - Small Producers from all over Europe. Very interesting, but very scary what is happening to small producers. Many amalgamations of small farms being eventually taken over by the big boys which create less diversity & often are more chemically loaded.
Small production is healthier for the environment & local economies, but how long will that last? It is all in the hands of the consumer & the choices they make.
I think that theft of livestock, poultry etc is on the increase as is poaching - people will steal food more - even its raw form.

Population increase is a reality - there is enough food, just not dished out fairly - really. But if the population keeps growing then we can't feed everyone - many will starve as others stuff themselves & throw away food. Climate change is effecting what can be grown where & weather is becoming increasingly unpredictable & erratic.
Always better to try & grow something & to educate kiddies at a young age about where food comes from.