Yesterday's farm..what if it comes back?

BilberryCharlotte

Lotus-eater wrote: »

Can I go back to something I referred to earlier on a different rant.

People are lazy, ignorant and basically don't give a toss if it means their life has to change.

You and me can rant about it as much as we like, but it ain't going to change baby.

I think you are being a little unfair there. Some people have times in their lives when it is all they can do to get through the day, let alone the week.

Of course there will probably always be people who couldn`t give a hoot but will then expect everyone else to provide for them. Please don`t be harsh with those who are too mithered to think ahead though, once things ease for them I am sure most will be interested in trying to become as self sufficient as possible.

choille

The Crofter's Act changes are at the proposal stage, again. It keeps getting shouted down, so they are having to re tinker with it, plus all the changes with who is leading the Scottish Parliament means it'll take a long time to get it through - I think.
The Crofter's Commision have not tackled absenteeism in many areas - including here. In fact the CC have been quite useless in a lot of things, but that's another rant - one which I'll not go down - here.

RAS

choille wrote: »

RAS - where do you get all your knowledge from?

Well as you may have gathered I have been interested in farming and food since I grew up on a farm as a child. After we had to move into town, I was always planning how I might get back out. I tend to go off the beaten track for holidays (West to east coast on the Harris/Lewis border, the Uists, Hirta, Orkney and Shetland, the Picos d'Europa, the Alps, Massif Central, Portugese Galicia, Connamara, el Hierro, La Gomera, Arctic Norway, Gothenberg county, Slovakia). I find that talking to people about their food is a good way in to learning about their lives and culture and so I learn bits all over the place.

I just follow my nose from there; brittle landscapes, rare breeds, hardy varieties, different types of farming. I read a fair bit, and hunt the net. I also experiment all the time on the ground; unobtainable seed varities, self saved seed - one of my plot neighbours started growing a Chinese gourd for instance. It is supposed to be a semi-tropical plant! I learned recently that it is used for make mock sharks fin soup so a small slice fetches £4 in the local Chinese supermarket. It is rampant producing 10+ large fruit per plant. I am going to be cutting the saved fruit shortly for seed.

The pear list came out of a visit to a friend who had just identified his apple trees on Tayside and an article about the local orchard network. I found Hogg's 1883 compendium of fruit varieties on line and was able to match some of the rather corrupted names listed to 19th descriptions. Took and evening or so which was a fine way to spend a very rainy evening.

RAS

rhiwfield wrote: »

I did say that I didnt want to talk about geo-political issues BUT I was surprised, while googling food security, to read about the various corporate land grabs under way in most developing countries. It does seem immoral for countries and their corporate fronts to acquire vast tracts of farmland in other countries to safeguard their own food supply (and for corporates/hedge funds etc to make profit from it).

I wonder if this has happened in the UK?

Yes it does. A number of our EU neighbours prevent non-citizens from buying farm land in one way or another but the UK lets anyone own it. Which is why a lot is corporate owned as a hedge against financial strife elsewhere and why some very rich foreigners have substantial land holdings in the UK, as choille and mardatha will know.

Korea, the Seychelles and China have been buying large tracts of Africa and obviously the Americans own vast chunks of Latin America. In fact many of the political upheavals have been as a result of threats to US landowners who hold but do not cultivate their land which affects local people. Read up on John Foster Dulles and the United Fruit Company and John Foster Dulles, predecessor of Hilary Clinton.

Davesnave

BilberryCharlotte wrote: »

I think you are being a little unfair there. Some people have times in their lives when it is all they can do to get through the day, let alone the week.

Of course there will probably always be people who couldn`t give a hoot but will then expect everyone else to provide for them. Please don`t be harsh with those who are too mithered to think ahead though, once things ease for them I am sure most will be interested in trying to become as self sufficient as possible.

I think Lotus was expressing frustration in a general sense about the mental and physical inertia in the population as a whole regarding change, even when they tacitly accept that such changes would be beneficial. He wasn't having a go at individuals or any one group in society. I'm sure he'd accept, as would we all, that people less fortunate than ourselves may well have immediately pressing concerns, which blank out anything else.

However, speaking as one who has in the past been 'mithered' by a system designed to keep me obediently chasing my tail, I feel it's sometimes good to pause and ask 'What the hell am I doing, and why am I perpetuating this particular lifestyle?' especially if one is not really enjoying it! That kind of honesty, to oneself, can make a real difference, but it may also have uncomfortable consequences, which may be why many shy away from it.

choille

:beer:Hi RAS - You certainly get about & it's good that you manage to grow stuff & share your knowledge around.

That's great with the gourd. I get seed from neighbours who go out to Tenerife. The packets are huge - the amount of seeds per packet industrial LOL & all the stuff I've grown from them is generally really successful. I have tried saving seed - not here, but it is a great thing to do.

The apple & pear thing has got me really interested in trying to get some fruit trees that are suitable for here as opposed cheap ones out of Morrissons. I've been down & started to clear some sloping ground that is sheltered, but get's good good light from the South. There are decades of leaf mould down there & brambles & bracken, but I started to clear that a while back - so I think I've found my new orchard area.

Thanks again RAS. Need a new project these wet, dreich days.

BilberryCharlotte

Davesnave wrote: »

I think Lotus was expressing frustration in a general sense about the mental and physical inertia in the population as a whole regarding change, even when they tacitly accept that such changes would be beneficial. He wasn't having a go at individuals or any one group in society. I'm sure he'd accept, as would we all, that people less fortunate than ourselves may well have immediately pressing concerns, which blank out anything else.

However, speaking as one who has in the past been 'mithered' by a system designed to keep me obediently chasing my tail, I feel it's sometimes good to pause and ask 'What the hell am I doing, and why am I perpetuating this particular lifestyle?' especially if one is not really enjoying it! That kind of honesty, to oneself, can make a real difference, but it may also have uncomfortable consequences, which may be why many shy away from it.

Well I agree with what you say, and I certainly wasn`t criticising Lotus (although I thought it was a she, sorry). I just think it is easy to ocasionally become exasperated with those who don`t seem to want to think what the future may hold, and try to prepare accordingly.

It is something I have been thinking about for a while, what to do with my limited resources (small back garden) and making my offspring aware of what could be.

I have also been thinking of moving back to the Peaks, wondering what sort of place I could hope to buy, and also what would grow there. Needless to say, I am finding this thread very interesting, and am grateful for any hints and tips I can pick up.

In my younger days I found it interesting to read self sufficiency books by John Seymour, although being vegan I would find it difficult to follow his system..

ceridwen

RAS wrote: »

Yes it does. A number of our EU neighbours prevent non-citizens from buying farm land in one way or another but the UK lets anyone own it. Which is why a lot is corporate owned as a hedge against financial strife elsewhere and why some very rich foreigners have substantial land holdings in the UK, as choille and mardatha will know.

Korea, the Seychelles and China have been buying large tracts of Africa and obviously the Americans own vast chunks of Latin America. In fact many of the political upheavals have been as a result of threats to US landowners who hold but do not cultivate their land which affects local people. Read up on John Foster Dulles and the United Fruit Company and John Foster Dulles, predecessor of Hilary Clinton.

Well - if some of our EU neighbours have the sense to see that "actual" ownership of land is all that counts if it comes down to it - then why the heck cant the British Government see that fact - and avoid that potential conflict?

As someone pointed out to me, ownership of OUR land in OUR country by some person/organisation/Government of another country means darn all if we decide we are going to use our own land ourselves - regardless of who actually has the "legal" ownership. "Actual" ownership matters rather more if push comes to shove.....and I could certainly see their point...as I would personally be more concerned with the "actual" ownership...and yes I am quite prepared to "squat" on our own land if need be.

BilberryCharlotte

ceridwen wrote: »

Well - if some of our EU neighbours have the sense to see that "actual" ownership of land is all that counts if it comes down to it - then why the heck cant the British Government see that fact - and avoid that potential conflict?

As someone pointed out to me, ownership of OUR land in OUR country by some person/organisation/Government of another country means darn all if we decide we are going to use our own land ourselves - regardless of who actually has the "legal" ownership. "Actual" ownership matters rather more if push comes to shove.....and I could certainly see their point...as I would personally be more concerned with the "actual" ownership...and yes I am quite prepared to "squat" on our own land if need be.

Something along the lines of the mass trespass of Kinder Scout? :-)

rhiwfield

ceridwen wrote: »

As someone pointed out to me, ownership of OUR land in OUR country by some person/organisation/Government of another country means darn all if we decide we are going to use our own land ourselves - regardless of who actually has the "legal" ownership. "Actual" ownership matters rather more if push comes to shove.....and I could certainly see their point...as I would personally be more concerned with the "actual" ownership...and yes I am quite prepared to "squat" on our own land if need be.

Trouble is we then get to the idea of all property is theft. Its fine if foreign owned land is squatted on but not in my back garden please! That's the real problem when resources become scarce, it leads to conflict between haves and have nots.

RAS's example of UFCO is a hint of how things may go, the power will be with the big corporations with the ear of governments. Its a recipe for future conflicts if local food is not sufficient.