Unenforceability & Template Letters II

scott9c

Hi NID,
It's been two weeks since i last posted and sent out the letter that states that the cca sent does not comply..... Barclaycard sent me a letter back stating that "we have already set out in detail, why we are satisfied that the documents already provided to you have discharged our obligations under the act. We are under no legal obligation to provide further documentationto you in this regard". However, all they sent me was a blank application form and conditons!! The detail they are referring to is "under section 78, we must supply a copyof you executed agreement and a statement that is practical to refer to". i dont quite get this, are they correct under this legislation??
I feel i have a strong case but like others will be worried about my credit ratin (which is not great anyway!). would i need to stop paying to test their resolve on this matter?? it would be sthe same as my LLoyds CC.

BOS unbelievably sent me a signed agreement that i took out with First National in 1999!! it looks good but will scan and post if you wouldn't mind having a look?

Thanks again for the advice!!

never-in-doubt wrote: »

You send it to whoever owns the debt (whoever added the default)....

never-in-doubt

scott9c wrote: »

Hi NID,
It's been two weeks since i last posted and sent out the letter that states that the cca sent does not comply..... Barclaycard sent me a letter back stating that "we have already set out in detail, why we are satisfied that the documents already provided to you have discharged our obligations under the act. We are under no legal obligation to provide further documentationto you in this regard". However, all they sent me was a blank application form and conditons!! The detail they are referring to is "under section 78, we must supply a copyof you executed agreement and a statement that is practical to refer to". i dont quite get this, are they correct under this legislation??
I feel i have a strong case but like others will be worried about my credit ratin (which is not great anyway!). would i need to stop paying to test their resolve on this matter?? it would be sthe same as my LLoyds CC.

BOS unbelievably sent me a signed agreement that i took out with First National in 1999!! it looks good but will scan and post if you wouldn't mind having a look?

Thanks again for the advice!!

Yes you should cease paying. Bear in mind you'll get a default so its risky but of you already have one then what's the harm? If you don't and you need credit in the next few years then unfortunately you have to repay the debt.

Yes, its the same process throughout. Barclays are wrong but they just play silly-beggars. To be honest you need to stop paying etc..... s.78 is basically relating to credit cards but they can supply a 'true copy' - which isn't acceptable really.

Its decision time for you mate :eek:

Scouse19

never-in-doubt wrote: »

Yea, that judgement only relates to the passage of data between the lender and you with the CRA's but there is a back door.... my letter on page 1 which tells the CRA's to remove the information or we'll sue them for libel. Obviously they don't want to take that 'chance' and so they remove the data.

For a summary of the McGuffick vs RBS Judgement, click here: http://www.stonechambers.com/cases/phillip-mcguffick-v-the-royal-bank-of-scotland-plc--2009--ewhc-2386---consumer-credit.asp

But are they not protected under that ruling aswell...in that they argued that for responsible lending, info flows to a CRA and also the CRA posting the info is necessary?

soot1975

Hi Never-In-Doubt & Captain Haggis

Thanks for the feedback.

The reason is simple. I live in Europe but do have an asset in the UK. A house.

All my UK debtors apart from Cahoot have acknowledged my oversea's address. Cahoot despite 2 recorded change of address letters sent in July & August have refused to acknowledge this and now have sent a saying they can't send a CCA copy to Europe. By doing this they are acknowledging my change of address so they obviously won't play ball.

How can I get them to comply? The 12-2 days are long gone.....so advice on the next cause of action would be a bonus.

Thank you.

captainhaggis

The account is in default. They have an obligation to send your documentation to wherever you live. Your address. Your home.

If they refuse to do so, default them. Send them the appropriate letter but edit it slightly to explain exactly why you're defaulting them - that they seem unwilling to correspond with you while you're outside the UK but that your rights remain the same, as do their obligations under the CCA.

never-in-doubt

Scouse19 wrote: »

But are they not protected under that ruling aswell...in that they argued that for responsible lending, info flows to a CRA and also the CRA posting the info is necessary?

Well kind of but you tell me, if you're the CRA and someone hits you with a libel claim, would you risk is opening the floodgates (as unenforceability has) therefore inundating them with claims to remove defaults? From experience (well 50 experiences) they do on occassion remove them and as I say in the letter preface, it's worth a try - nothing ventured - nothing lost

It has and always be down to personal circumstances i'm afraid..... BUT, if you owe £10k or whatever and the only harm done is a default, i'm sure this would satisfy most people rather than repaying it so unenforceability is still very strong and worth considering, albeit you will have a default

never-in-doubt

captainhaggis wrote: »

The account is in default. They have an obligation to send your documentation to wherever you live. Your address. Your home.

If they refuse to do so, default them. Send them the appropriate letter but edit it slightly to explain exactly why you're defaulting them - that they seem unwilling to correspond with you while you're outside the UK but that your rights remain the same, as do their obligations under the CCA.

Exactly, good post cap'n.

So, in this case you have to cease paying. It is very unlikely they will attempt to obtain a charging order and even if they did, at that point you simply recommence repayments to hold them at bay. This only affects you when you come to sell the house anyway, so let them add an order - its then like an interest free loan lol. Seriously, I wouldn't be worrying about this - moreso taking strong action and stop paying!

Letter to send is this one (edited to suit as directed by Cap'n): 4. CCA Dispute

Dojo_Jo_Jo

Have received back reply from MBNA re the Visa cc. They have enclosed a photocopy of the original executed agreement signed by me, but it is reduced to about 70% of the original and whilst I can see it is my sig and details, the typed details are almost illegible (even when scanned in and zoomed).

As far as I can gather on the page I have signed, NONE of the prescribed terms exist. Now..... the second photocopied page I assume is supposedly the BACK of the agreement (how can I verify this is the case and not just a standard doc they attach to cover themselves) is solely typed.

Have you got a standard letter to this effect I can send them which includes actual size of original doc required?

Frightened to draft anything myself in case I drop myself in it! :eek:

Finally, do the prescribed terms need to be drafted within the body of the document I have signed or can they be an attachment?

Your comments are really appreciated N-I-B !

never-in-doubt

Dojo_Jo_Jo wrote: »

Have received back reply from MBNA re the Visa cc. They have enclosed a photocopy of the original executed agreement signed by me, but it is reduced to about 70% of the original and whilst I can see it is my sig and details, the typed details are almost illegible (even when scanned in and zoomed).

As far as I can gather on the page I have signed, NONE of the prescribed terms exist. Now..... the second photocopied page I assume is supposedly the BACK of the agreement (how can I verify this is the case and not just a standard doc they attach to cover themselves) is solely typed.

Have you got a standard letter to this effect I can send them which includes actual size of original doc required?

Frightened to draft anything myself in case I drop myself in it! :eek:

Finally, do the prescribed terms need to be drafted within the body of the document I have signed or can they be an attachment?

Your comments are really appreciated N-I-B !

Hiya

My name is Niddy or N-i-D lol :beer:
You should send this letter: 16. Various CCA Query Letter 'Variations' go in and select the one called 'Illegible Copy Document Supplied' - it pretty much covers your scenario - no need to edit it.

fermi

Amazing how ill informed people can be over this.

Very sad.