Unenforceability & Template Letters II

never-in-doubt

St0lli wrote: »

Hi Niddy, I've just sent you an email regarding my CitiCard / Clarity query. Can you have a look at it when you get some spare time please?

Ta muchly!

What they sent is junk, basically a copy of the terms. I'll sort you a reply - hang fire - be back with it later lol (got so many letters to type tonite!) :mad: :mad: :mad:

never-in-doubt

Goodtimesahead wrote: »

Question : can this Interim Charging Order be set aside on the grounds that the claimant has failed to supply a true copy of the CCA to the defendant, therefore until such time they do, then the debt is unenforceable in a court of law?

Yes - send a PM to 10past6 who will help with this, it is his speciality The lender can take no action whilst they are in dispute of CCA s.78 - look at my signature for the legal wording!

Section 127(1) of the Consumer Credit Act (CCA 1974) is subject to the restrictions imposed by sections 127(3) & (4).
Those subsections set out the circumstances in which the court shall not make an enforcement order under section 65(1) of the Act.

Goodtimesahead wrote: »

Further question: could Lloyds produce a copy of the CCA at the Court hearing without previously sending my friend a copy and if they did would the judge have to dismiss it as not admissable as they failed to provide a copy of the CCA at the time my friend SAR'd them?

Yes they could but you'd have to see it first or it would inadmissable as you state, but then a simple threat CPR31.16 would establish their true intentions.

As I say, PM 10past6 for best advice.

St0lli

never-in-doubt wrote: »

What they sent is junk, basically a copy of the terms. I'll sort you a reply - hang fire - be back with it later lol (got so many letters to type tonite!) :mad: :mad: :mad:

Thanks Niddy... really do appreciate it! :beer:

never-in-doubt

St0lli wrote: »

Hi Niddy, I've just sent you an email regarding my CitiCard / Clarity query. Can you have a look at it when you get some spare time please?

Ta muchly!

Hiya,

Send the following letter off to Clarity;

Dear Sirs,

Account No: XXXXXXXX

I write in response to your letter, received on XX/XX/XXXX.

In my original letter, to Citi, dated XX/09/2009, I requested a copy of the credit agreement relating to the account detailed above. I expected to receive an exact copy of that which they held in their records i.e. a copy of the agreement which is signed by myself and their representative. Instead, I received a typed agreement with my name, address and account number on it which is evidently not my original agreement.

My basis for this is the fact you sent me a typed version of this form with two dates on it, however I never took the card out in December 2008 so i'm slightly confused why my name and address appear on such terms? Secondly, there is no signature box which makes me suspect you are trying to deceive me by lying as to the accuracy of any such original.

Whilst I appreciate that under the regulations you are able to omit a signature and date box from the copy, I would like to hold in my records an exact copy of the document that you hold (if any). I do not want a piece of paper that alludes to there being an agreement; I would like a photocopy of the actual agreement. I am requesting that you provide me a copy of the agreement that bears my signature as I have reason to believe that there may be discrepancies within the agreement which may leave it improperly executed. In order to be able to adjudge my position effectively I would require a copy of the actual agreement that apparently exists and I therefore appeal to you to fulfil my request. I am willing to pay any reasonable charge that you feel is necessary, in order to provide a copy of the “actual” credit agreement.

In considering my request, I ask that you take a common sense approach and do not hold to the line that you have provided all that is expected of you nor the recent test case in manchester, namely and to be known as:

Carey v HSBC Bank Plc [2009] EWHC 3417 (QB) (23 December 2009).

I make my request in good faith and I feel it is a nonsense approach to hold to the idea that you won’t provide this document because you simply don’t have to. I feel that would take advantage of your position and such an approach from your business not be in the best interests of a healthy business/client relationship. I see no reason not to provide a photocopy of the requested document.

Why would it be necessary to not provide a photocopy of the actual document if you are going to send what you claim is an exact replica, minus the signatures? Why are you unwilling to provide the signatures anyway, I don’t really understand this stance? Unless, of course, you don’t actually have the document on record and so are unable to provide it, in which case I understand your actions. If it is the case that the original document is not in your possession, please advise this is your response letter. I trust I do not need remind you of recent OFT guidance given to lenders and third parties regarding the misinterpretation of any alleged original agreement.

Finally, as you are no doubt aware, your continual harassment not only breaches the Consumer Credit Act (1974), but also the Data Protection Act (1998), the Consumer Protection From Unfair Trading Regulations (2008) and the Office Of Fair Trading's Debt Collection Guidelines. Being that the Original Creditor (Citi) is now in default of my CCA Request and OFT Debt Collection Guidelines, I consider this account to be in serious dispute, especially due to the fact that whilst my CCA Request remains in default (outstanding), enforcement action is not permitted in line with s.127(3) of the CCA1974.

Consequently, any legal action you pursue will not only be fully and vigorously defended, it will also be averred as both unlawful and vexatious. As such I respectfully suggest that this account is returned to the original creditor for immediate resolution prior to my seeking legal advice; due to the fact you cannot lawfully pursue any enforcement activities as the account was already in dispute at the time you became involved.

If you decide to ignore my dispute and attempt enforcement, I will initiate legal action and file reports with the appropriate authorities including, but not limited to, Trading Standards, Office of Fair Trading, Information Commissioners Office, Financial Ombudsman Service and possible court action.

I hope that you will find my request agreeable and look forward to your response within 14 days.

Yours faithfully

St0lli

St0lli

Thanks Niddy. Just one last query (for tonight anyway!) The 'CCA' was sent by CitiCards so do I send the above letter to them or still send it to Clarity like you suggest.

Thanks for taking the time out to compose the letter!

never-in-doubt

St0lli wrote: »

Thanks Niddy. Just one last query (for tonight anyway!) The 'CCA' was sent by CitiCards so do I send the above letter to them or still send it to Clarity like you suggest.

Thanks for taking the time out to compose the letter!

Sorry thought you told me clarity were harassing you? Who is hassling you, who owns the debt? who registered the default?

libbyjade

Hi Niddy,

I will try to be concise with this -

cca request sent to Apex - 10/06/09

letter from Apex advising my request has been forwarded to Goldfish to provide CCA 11/06/09

nothing further received, cca dispute letter sent by me - 17/07/09

what looks like an incorrect cca sent by Apex to me - 9/10/09 (It looks incorrect as there is no credit limit, signature box, it looks to me like a print out of t&c's and at the bottom of the 2 page doc there is a corner for the customer to fill out if they wish to cancel this agreement - this is blank)

Can I email you it tomorrow to look over please to give me a definitive answer, it'll be pdf you see?

Apex also forward copy statements on 14/10/09 (not actual copy statements but internal system generated statements) details include balance, credit limit, min pay due, pay due date, interest rates, statement dates & list of transactions.

Contact request letters sent by Apex to me asking me to get in touch Nov 09, Dec 09 & Feb 10.

If you don't mind looking at what they sent & advise me of what I do next por favor!!

Many Thanks

never-in-doubt

ejc81 wrote: »

It's complicated! The original debt for £1200 HP with HFC. They cocked up the paperwork (it should have been direct debit but something went wrong at their end) and the next thing I heard of it was a demand from capquest for £1670 no mention of any defaults. They sent me a settlement offer for £1200ish which I paid. This was all in 2006.

Hiya,

Going on from your PM send the following letter to 1st Credit with copies of the other correspondence you have:

Good Luck

Dear Sirs,

Reference: XXXXXXXX

I write with reference to previous communication regarding the above referenced account and subsequent illegal activities carried out by your company.

A brief overview; The original debt was for approximately £1200 with HFC, who subsequently messed up my account which resulted in non payment for quite some time. Then, whilst negotiating with HFC I received a demand from CapQuest for £1670 (in 2006), I disputed this and we both agreed that the sum of £1200 would be paid which was the original amount owing.

Then out of the blue I was contacted by yourselves in 2007 demanding I pay £680 for the same HFC account that was now cleared in full, as agreed with CapQuest the previous year. I telephoned to complain and was advised to send in proof which I did so, as attached with this letter today.

I heard nothing from you and thought that would be the end of things, after all i'd settled the account a year earlier. How wrong was I to be proved, when a few weeks later I got the same demand and so I went about sending another copy of everything, proving the account was cleared back in 2006.

I was also contacted by, and responded to, Connaught Collections on behalf of 1st Credit Ltd throughout this period so maybe they have the documents I sent back, who knows? However, to finalise this matter once and for all I attach another copy which will be last time I send them in.

So, here we are. I thought, being the last time i'd heard from you was over 2 years ago that everything would be sorted. However whilst applying for credit recently, I was declined which later transpired as a direct result of an inaccurate and unlawful default notice registered by 1st Credit in 2009.

I feel this default entry was not only added unlawfully but also without merit - lets not forget that my account was paid in full and there was never a balance to pay anyway. As a result of your default entry, you've now breached the Consumer Credit Act 1974, in particular s.87(1) of said Act;

Section 87(1) of the 1974 Act allows the creditor to send you a default notice giving you fourteen days from the date you receive it to pay the arrears. The default notice must contain all of the necessary information under the Consumer Credit (Enforcement, Default and Termination Notices) Regulations 1983 ('the 1983 Regulations'), which includes;

• a statement saying the notice is a default notice served under section 87(1) of the 1974 Act
• a description of the agreement
• the name and address of both the debtor and the creditor
• details of the breach (i.e. late payment) and, if the breach can be remedied, the date by which it must be remedied or, if the breach is not capable of remedy, the amount required to be paid after the expiry of the specified date;

As is clearly evident from all previous communication between us regards to this default, I never received any such notice and there was never a balance outstanding (as the attached letters prove), and as a result I contest the accuracy of the default and until such time you can provide proof that you complied with the above Act, you must remove all derogatory data from the files of any credit reference agency (CRA).

I will not enter into protracted arguments with you about this, put simply, either comply or face litigation for breach of DPA and Libel. I demand this matter is resolved ultimately leading with all trace of you gone from my credit file, within the next 21 days otherwise legal proceedings will begin in which I will fight for full compensation for your libellous data reporting within the 3 CRA's, namely CallCredit, Equifax & Experian.

I do trust common sense will prevail and the incorrect and unlawful default entry will be removed before forcing me into litigation which I will win, there is no question of a doubt surrounding that.

I expect your written confirmation within 21 days.

Yours faithfully




Sign digitally

libbyjade

Hi Niddy,

I was a little unsure about your response on a previous post, I think I confused you with having a few cards contained within it. For my clairty, I have tried to outline it better -

cca request - 10/06/09

nothing received from American Express

cca dispute letter sent 17/07/09 (letter signed for by American Express)

incorrect cca sent by American Express to me July 09 (no specific date on their letter)

I send further step 4 cca dispute letter on 02/02/10 (sent recorded delivery to same address as above but not showing as signed for on Royal Mail website)

Have I sent out the right letters, do I need to do anything else now?

Thanks!

ejc81

:jThat will do nicely mate, going in post first thing tommorow

cheers :beer: