Tenant left place dirty..deposit?

cremegg

Hi

I'm hoping that there are some deposit experts out there from the landlord perspective who can help with this one please?

Our tenant has been a royal pain in the backside from day one, but we bent over backwards - more than I was happy with doing but my partner was out of work for a few months last year and was so scared of her leaving said yes to everything she demanded... She had him doing all sorts that she should have done herself and then she wanted a dog, we said yes ok so long as it's well behaved etc etc and any damage done is repaired..agreed... (we have a dog ourselves and rent a house so I wouldn't rule it out for our tenants)

Anyway... she left 9 days earlier than she should have, posted the keys through our door...I went down to check over place and it's dirty. Not completely trashed as in the horror stories you read about, but it's taken my partner 2 days and a gallon of bleach to clean up (have taken before n after photos), dirt level is not acceptable - I'm not a clean freak but there's no way I would live like that let alone allow someone to move in and face that...dumped a load of old lino in the bedroom in a big roll, has to be taken to tip by van at our expense...coffee (?) stains up the walls and door frames, dirty walls that needed repainting (she's been in one year and it was freshly decorated when she moved in) black something or other on the 4 year old double glazed windows and stable door, gasket of door chewed up, grime all over cooker and hob, rings embedded in work top and in white sink (bleach won't shift the ones in the sink!!), toilet was covered in dog hair and grime, shower the same and bathroom was not allowed to air after shower as we asked her to (property is small flat by river and can get damp in bathroom as no windows there, just fan) so black damp in shower. Dog hairs all over the floors. And the skirting boards have been chewed by the dog - the new ones that my partner took care to fit 2/3 yrs ago.

My partner has had to take 2 days off to do this cleaning as new tenants are in soon. I tried to call our ex-tenant and left messages to say that the place is not clean and she must contact me to arrange for the place to be cleaned before I give the go ahead for the deposit to be returned. She has not returned my calls - and is known over the last few weeks to not return messages to the agents who are finding new tenant for us and to the guy who is doing the energy check for that cert you have to have -this is because she has the hump because we wouldn't let her give provisional notice when she wanted to leave, she had ideas of saying I think I have a place I am moving into, but I won't know for 2 weeks so I'll provisionally give notice on the phone now and if I get this place, I'll move out of here in 2 weeks after that and if not, I'll stay til I get another place sorted!!! I think not!! We politely explained that no, we can't do it that way as we need the time to get another tenant sorted and so need the notice in standard written way...despite this she still hand-posted a letter through our door 2 weeks later to say she's leaving in 2 weeks' time and would like the deposit in cash on that day!! another phone call to say no, we accept notice but it's from the date she gave us the letter not from the phone call 2 weeks earlier! since then she's been awkward in allowing access for anything we need to arrange new tenants and ignored all calls..anyway my point is that I've tried to give her time to fix the issues but she's ignored my calls and we needed it sorting for the new tenant. we don't have a forwarding address as she refused to give us it, just said her mail is redirected from our flat, so i sent a letter there and heard nothing back.

I'm not happy refunding all of the deposit. We will be deducting the cost of skirting boards and paint. But I need to know what is a fair price to charge for labour. As mentioned, my partner has taken 2 days off to sort this out. He's self employed with the co he works with so has no holidays, he's lost £100 a day in earnings. Previous tenants have not always left the place sparkling, but it's only ever been an hour of elbow grease to make it ok and I've just done it and refunded deposit in full, we've never had to keep any of the money before but I'm damned if we're doing all that work for 'free' and giving her all of her money back especially when I've given her the chance to fix it and she's ignored me after all that we have done for her (list is endless!!)!!

Do you think it's reasonable that I deduct the following from her £500 deposit:
£200 loss of earnings/labour costs for making good
Cost price of the skirting boards and paint (I think that's about £30/£40)

I'm worried that £200 sounds a lot in labour, but it's a geniune loss on our part as my partner has lost 2 days' work. As much as I don't like the woman, I don't want to keep her deposit because of that, (part of me says just refund it, never have to deal with her again! but I don't think that this should come out of our pocket while she walks away with a full refund)

Thanks for your help and sorry about the essay.

tbs624

Is the property is England or Wales and, if yes:

(a) did you scheme register the tenants deposit *and* give her the scheme's prescribed information?

(b) do you have an inventory in place signed by both you and your tenant at the start of the tenancy?

cremegg

England
Yes - with agents who 'found' her for us and have her signature for that

Not a signed inventory as there isn't really anything there to move or take, only the contract and deposit scheme thing, but agents would have seen standard of place. don't know if that counts for much?

cremegg

thanks for the quick reply btw

kitschkitty

Most agencies I've experience of employ a professional cleaning company and the bill total is taken from the deposit, as they have proof of the cost of cleaning then.

I'd also expect the removals cost to be deducted and cost of materials and labour for repairs to be fair.

Also in unfurnished places we've had full inventories listing the state of all the walls, carpets, fixtures and fitting etc, often down to nail holes and tiny cracks etc!

As for asking for the deposit back in cash, that's also a new one on me, I've always had to wait for a cheque, after receiving a confirmation of any cleaning costs, repairs etc (which some times we've had to argue against with unfair landlords/agents)!

Sorry to hear your tenant was so inconsiderate though, that's really not on, and I'd be interested to hear the situation if can you claim loss of earnings to cover cleaning time, but then I'd assume a cleaning companies bill would be less than £200 (not that I know though)!

I do think you need to stick to your guns and find out exactly how much you can biol her for the damage and cleaning - don't feel bad if she genuinely is the one in the wrong, but at least you have learnt about the need for a good inventory and contracts that stipulate clear conditions.

cremegg

I'm going to be writing up an inventory for this new tenant!

The £200 also covers the time for the repairs and ditching the rolls of lino e.g. getting/fitting/painting new skirting boards and painting the walls, re-doing the gasket on the stable door as well as the cleaning that had to be done.

re the deposit in cash...tell me about it lol. she knows how it works though because she paid the agents the deposit and was told about how it works and she was given an info pack with the contract/agreement. the agents just find the tenant and then we manage the place from there.

I'm just waiting for that call now when she realises her deposit will not be returned in full - bet she'll contact me then!!!!! She'll be dealing with me from now on though because she ran circles round my OH when she first moved in lol

The contract is a good one, and it does state about how things should be left etc but I think an in-depth inventory is a good idea and I'll be taking photo's to back it up.

thanks for your help x

EliteHeat

Without an inventory I don't think you stand a chance.

Even if you did, it was incumbent on you to ensure that the work was done by professionals at the best possible price.

I would be very surprised if you setting arbitrary rates for labour in an area you are not in business in, would satisfy the deposit holders. If I were the tenant, I would certainly dispute this. For instance how did you use a gallon of bleach? there are only so many areas you can use bleach on, this strikes me as wholly unrealistic. The issue of damp is not down to the tenant, but is your responsibility. Unless you are an expert in ventilation you cannot possibly assume that because your unqualified advice was not followed, damp ensued. The bathroom should have been adequately equipped to ensure proper ventilation in normal use without recourse to special actions by the tenant, most reasonable people would not consider closing the door to a bathroom irresponsible or careless.

I don't mean to sound harsh, but a BTL landlord is running a business and should deal with it in a businesslike, not amateur, manner.

bownyboy

Ditto what EliteHeat said. Without an inventory there is no proof that the condition of the flat was not like that when they moved in.

Even with an inventory you have to be careful to follow the rules / guidelines. Myself and my girlfriend recently moved out of a unfurnished flat which had an inventory, but the check-out was not comparable to the check-in and the landlord raised a dispute regarding damage / stains etc.

We took them to the TDS and won.

Fire_Fox

For the future don't deal with tenants by telephone, especially after you asked for formal communication (notice) in writing! Didn't you have a work address or emergency contact address from when the credit checks were carried out by the agency?

Sugar soap removes a lot of dirty marks from walls that other cleaning products don't shift and is also excellent for thick grease, bleach won't clean a sink it just lightens stains. When you say the tenant left nine days early, I hope you didn't enter the property while the tenancy was still in place?

kitschkitty

Actually damp can be thetenants responsibility. It is in our contract that we must ensure rooms are aired to avaiod damp on windowsills andclean up any damp.

Now damp in the walls and possibly other areas may well be the landlords responsibility it depends on the cause and contract conditions etc.

WoldView83

A bit of a curate's egg.
from my POV, I've rented since I was 18 - 8 years feels a long time, and I've been in current place 3 and a half years.

Some of the things you mention (eg damage to sink-assume its the enamel? and worktops?) I'm very surprised the letting agent have not seen in their inspection - I'd be asking
a) why did they not tell you about this
b) did they tell the tenant and give them time to make the damage good?
c) why did they not do a final inspection?
There should have been a final inspection before she left the property to check inventory etc (you said you don't have one - agency should have had one at the very least - after all, what conditions were in the contract for the return of deposit/)

Some of the other things...I'm sorry, but she's been there over a year (was it 2?) you should allow fair wear and tear. e.g. Marks on doors. Fair enough, its annoying, it can/may be cleaned, but...pull the other one! Depends on the other marks with the skirting - eg are we talking pulled right off or one tooth mark?

Other stuff - yeah , its dirty, if you've given her an opportunity to clean and rectify once brought to her attention then I think you should bill. Fair dos. She's not contacted you and seems to avoid the LA - perahps a letter worded to the effect re: billing and deposit.

Sorry if this is wrong, but it sounds like you didn't intend this house to rent long term - espeically if you fitted it up to your own standards. Tenants may not have understood that you wanted it kept as pristine as the day you made it, and TBF its not reasonable to expect this.

Obviously I'm a renter myself, and whilst I appreciate the things my landlord must have done to the house before I moved in, sometimes I want to kick them - cream fluffy heavy carpet in the bath room of all places?! Beige carpets everywhere else? White plastic fake doors Over the bath shower that has no water pressure? No hooks for pictures or mirrors? Fence that hasn't been done for 15 years that blows down every 3 months (which either I or the LA repair but no one replaces?) To their taste, but not practical. I recognise I've lived here for a while now and will defo need to do a deep, deep clearn and probably pay out of deposit for other stuff.

That's how it turns out.

All the best with your situation!