Unfair deposit deducations - possible fake invoice. Next steps?

debstardeb

The LL called me just now and has offered full return of the deposit. I didn't even have to send a LBA, I guess my email asking him to explain the 'invoice' and clarify which deposit scheme his registered us with was enough to make him realise he's in trouble!

I have told him I'll ring him back and let him know. What do you guys think - should I just take the money and walk away or pursue the 3x to court? Clearly the money is an incentive to keep going now that I have written confirmation from each of the schemes, but is it worth it?

He seems to have given in quite quickly, I wonder if it would be worth trying to counter his offer by asking for a bit more than the original deposit back - or is this just downright silly and greedy? I respect everyone's advice so moral/practical advice welcome!

MissMoneypenny

N79 wrote: »

Now read section 3. If the LL protects or refunds the deposit before the court hearing then the court can not apply section 3 as the LL has no deposit to refund or protect, either because it is within the Ts possession or because it is in the possession of the DPS or protected by the rules of the TDS / my deposits.

The landlord can return it, but the tenant does not have to accept it if they are claiming for 3x the deposit for the landlords failure to comply with the law. Why should someone be allowed to escape the law just because they weren't caught in the act of breaking the law?

MissMoneypenny

I posted this on another thread today about the same thing.

Before you cash the cheque, do you want to enquire about getting the 3x the deposit from the landlord for his failure to comply with the law?

Have you got house contents insurance with the added extra of Legal Cover? If you have, check in their booklet to see that they don't exclude court action for defending/taking action against, a landlord. Some policies even state that you are covered for court matters with a landlord.

If you think you might be covered, ring your insurers and ask for a legal claim form (don't be fobbed off by the person who answers the phone). Fill it in, return it and see if they will agree to cover you for this. If they agree in writing that you are covered, they will get you a solicitor or barrister who specialises in this area and all it will cost you is the excess on your policy. Your costs are then covered. If you lose in court, your insurers pay. If you win in court, they will get the landlord to pay their costs and you will get the 3x the deposit. Faced with the very real chance of being landed with your spiralling legal bills, the landlord may just pay the 3 x deposit straight away..

m_13

debstardeb wrote: »

Bristol Pilot - I have asked the LL to clarify the Alex and Co invoice. The LL at this point could try to just deny all knowledge that this invoice exists so i am hoping that when he gets round to emailing me back he will try to assure me that it is a real invoice. Once I have something in writing from him I will then pass all the information i have on to the police.

What has your LL said about the invoice? If he has fabricated this then he has fallen foul of the Fraud Act 2006 specifically 'Possession etc of articles for use in frauds' and 'Making or supplying articles for use in frauds'.

[FONT=BookAntiquaParliamentary,Bold]6 Possession etc. of articles for use in frauds[/FONT]
(1) A person is guilty of an offence if he has in his possession or under his control
any article for use in the course of or in connection with any fraud.
(2) A person guilty of an offence under this section is liable—
(a) on summary conviction, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 12
months or to a fine not exceeding the statutory maximum (or to both);
(b) on conviction on indictment, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding
5 years or to a fine (or to both).
(3) Subsection (2)(a) applies in relation to Northern Ireland as if the reference to 12
months were a reference to 6 months.

[FONT=BookAntiquaParliamentary,Bold]7 Making or supplying articles for use in frauds[/FONT]
(1) A person is guilty of an offence if he makes, adapts, supplies or offers to supply
any article—
(a) knowing that it is designed or adapted for use in the course of or in
connection with fraud, or
(b) intending it to be used to commit, or assist in the commission of, fraud.
(2) A person guilty of an offence under this section is liable—
(a) on summary conviction, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 12
months or to a fine not exceeding the statutory maximum (or to both);
(b) on conviction on indictment, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding
10 years or to a fine (or to both).

Making a fake letterhead, fake invoices or producing fake or amended receipts all come under these sections if they are then used to create or perpetuate a fraud. If your LL has made an invoice to falsely claim that he has paid a company £600 for cleaning and painting intending to cause him a gain and you a loss then he's committed the offence even if the loss or gain never takes place.

bosseyed

debstardeb wrote: »

The LL called me just now and has offered full return of the deposit. I didn't even have to send a LBA, I guess my email asking him to explain the 'invoice' and clarify which deposit scheme his registered us with was enough to make him realise he's in trouble!

I have told him I'll ring him back and let him know. What do you guys think - should I just take the money and walk away or pursue the 3x to court? Clearly the money is an incentive to keep going now that I have written confirmation from each of the schemes, but is it worth it?

He seems to have given in quite quickly, I wonder if it would be worth trying to counter his offer by asking for a bit more than the original deposit back - or is this just downright silly and greedy? I respect everyone's advice so moral/practical advice welcome!

A fascinating thread, and I'm glad you now have the offer of your original deposit on the table.

D'you know what I'd do in this circumstance? Ignore his offer to give you back your deposit - after all thats the least he can do. See how much hes willing to cough up to stop court action. He deliberately and knowingly put the financial squeezers on you, now its time to turn the tables and see how he likes it. Carry on along the court route if need be and screw him as comprehensively as possible. Your LL is a thief, he lied to you, tried to defraud you and take your (I assume!) hard earned money and now you've caught him out. On pure principle, I would pursue this to the maximum penalty to teach him a lesson. Mind you, I'm a bitter, bitter individual, but I will not be ripped off and taken for a ride by anyone.

debstardeb

I think that's why he telephoned me to offer to pay back the deposit - he hasn't mentioned the invoice still and I think he has offered the deposit back as a way of avoiding comment on this issue. I'm not quite sure how to handle this issue. I could try asking him to explain it again in writing - I could just pass it to the Police but I'm worried he'll just deny any knowldge and they won't really care about investigating it further.

m_13

Have you checked to see if you have legal cover on any of your insurance policies? I think it's worth taking their advice.

debstardeb

I just live with my mum now and I don't think I could use her policy

debstardeb

Ah - one more development, I always thought that my landlord was [xxx] (a landlord with a branch on brixton road), but looking at my lease my LL is a named person, and the company who I have been dealing with are merely acting as the agent. If I pursue the matter should my letters be directed to the agent or to the LL? Who would I take to court - the LL or the agent?

Here is the letter I have written:

Dear [xxx],

As[FONT=Times New Roman, serif] I explained to you on the phone, today I have contacted Mydeposits, TDS (who are named in our deposit agreement) and Deposit Protection, who have all confirmed to me in emails that our deposit was not registered with these schemes. In contravention of Chapter Four of the Housing Act 2004 you failed to register the deposit within 14 days of the deposit being paid, and you failed to provide us with a registration certificate as required by the terms of the deposit agreement. [/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Under the Housing Act 2004 s.214, failure to register the deposit with an authorised scheme, and failure to provide tenants with proof of compliance within 14 days gives the tenant the right to seek the return of the deposit through the courts, plus three times the deposit amount as a penalty. If we did the pursue this matter to court, the amount we would be claiming would be the deposit plus the three times penalty, which equals £5,040. If successful at court, added to this figure would be court costs.[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Furthermore, you have claimed deductions from the deposit which have not been substantiated in invoices, namely the removal of rubbish (which you subsequently told me you would remove as a gesture of goodwill) and the painting of the flat. The only invoice which covers these items is the invoice from Alex and Co, which the lady in your office gave to Vlad when he visited your offices last week. You have failed to provide any further information explaining this invoice despite my previous request. Where did this invoice come from? Please provide details about who runs this business. Please do not ignore this question.[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Having to contact you repeatedly to contest the charges that you have attempted to impose, having to research the relevant law in relation to the protection of deposits, and having to contact the agencies involved in protection of deposits to obtain written evidence that you have failed to meet with your statutory obligations has taken me a considerable amount of time. It has been three months since we moved out and the issue is far from resolved.[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]I note that today you offered the full deposit back, minus the £50 rent charge. In light of all of the above, we would be willing to negotiate an out of court settlement of £2,210 (the full deposit minus the £50 rent deduction, plus £1000). The amount we are claiming reflects the time I have spent researching the law in this area, and the strong position that we are in with regards to your breach of the Housing Act. This sum is much less than the £5,040 we would claim at court. If you were to accept this amount and pay within 14 days, Vladimir and I would be willing to accept this in full and final settlement, I would not pursue the matter any further. Please let me have your response to the above as soon as possible, and within ten days at the latest. We are keen to avoid the courts and propose this settlement as a viable alternative to litigation. Please keep all communication at this point via email as I would like everything in writing, but the postal delays due to the strikes mean letters are bothersome at this point.[/FONT]

[debstardeb]

debstardeb

Thought I'd send it as an email and give them one last chance to settle