Unfair deposit deducations - possible fake invoice. Next steps?

EliteHeat

debstardeb wrote: »

Yes and those flats are owned by the landlord, as when I telephoned and asked the lady in the office just told me outright that they do manage that property. Smells fishy to me...

I'd say you had them bang to rights. I hope you take them to the cleaners for trying to steal from you in such an underhand manner. It might also be worth contacting the police and asking them about whether they have committed some crime like obtaining pecuniary advantage by deception, false accounting or similar.

-Ad-

Christ on a bike, it seems there are plenty of poeple who don't think taking pictures is worthwhile. Soo simple and can prevent soo many hassles.
You have talked about a signed inventory, but was it a detail of the condition of the flat or just listing whats in there ?


A fake quote is just that. They would need to provide at least 2 other quotations to show they had taken the cheapest route (to show they are not profitting).

Stop with bickering etc and write a formal letter/e-mail to your LL/LA requesting the full deposit to be returned within 10 days. If they don't then file a dispute wiht teh depoist comapny and get your evidence together. Write things clearly and stop being emotional. Disect his evidence and explain how it is most likely faked, conditions of the flat etc.

Don't forget that pictures speak a thousand words. Even if the LL/LA has pictures of the property after leaving it will be painfully obvious that it is in a great state of repair. The arbiter will most likely see it this way as there is no realy evidence for the deductions other than the LL/LA word. An arbiter for the deposit scheme has heard it all before and will ignore silly tallys and costs like this from the LL/LA.

debstardeb

Massive progress...Today I found a copy of my tenancy agreement ad the TDS agreement. As I was sure we have never received a copy of the registration certificate I got my boyfriend to go round to the LL today and ask for a copy. They couldn't find one. I then contacted the TDS by email and they state that the deposit was not registered with them. I have also checked by email with MyDeposits and they have confirmed it was not registered with them, I'm just waiting for Deposit Protection to get back to me, although this is a precautionary measure only as TDS is named on the agreement.

I am going to write a letter before action and take it in to the LL in person tomorrow. I can't believe how much stuff they have done wrong! I have heard that if you go to court it is possible to get the LL fined for not registering the deposit properly - does anyone have any more knowlegde about this? I'm wondering if I should just get the deposit back and leave it there or whether I should try to pursue it further because they have acted so terribly. What are your thoughts?

Thank you so much for your help and comments everyone!

debstardeb

Forgot to mention...of course I will be claiming the full deposit back in my letter before action

debstardeb

Christ on a bike, it seems there are plenty of poeple who don't think taking pictures is worthwhile. Soo simple and can prevent soo many hassles.
You have talked about a signed inventory, but was it a detail of the condition of the flat or just listing whats in there ? {quote}



You are so right! I have learnt my lesson for next time :T

Jowo_2

The penalty for landlord's non-compliance is x3 the sum of the deposit. Sorry but I don't know the form you fill in for this. It's worth mentioning this in the letter before action as such a penalty might make the landlord more motivated to repay your original deposit in full rather than get hit with a huge fine like that.

However, unfortunately the wording on the legislation is regarded as poor - many landlords who protect the deposit late but before the court case aren't ordered to pay compensation.

theartfullodger

The penalty for landlord's non-compliance is x3 the sum of the deposit.

Jowo correct... (as usual!)

It's in Housing Act 2004 Section 214 see...
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/ACTS/acts2004/ukpga_20040034_en_19#pt6-ch4-l1g214

214 Proceedings relating to tenancy deposits

(1) Where a tenancy deposit has been paid in connection with a shorthold tenancy, the tenant or any relevant person (as defined by section 213(10)) may make an application to a county court on the grounds—
(a) that the initial requirements of an authorised scheme (see section 213(4)) have not, or section 213(6)(a) has not, been complied with in relation to the deposit; or
(b) that he has been notified by the landlord that a particular authorised scheme applies to the deposit but has been unable to obtain confirmation from the scheme administrator that the deposit is being held in accordance with the scheme.
(2) Subsections (3) and (4) apply if on such an application the court—
(a) is satisfied that those requirements have not, or section 213(6)(a) has not, been complied with in relation to the deposit, or
(b) is not satisfied that the deposit is being held in accordance with an authorised scheme,
as the case may be.
(3) The court must, as it thinks fit, either—
(a) order the person who appears to the court to be holding the deposit to repay it to the applicant, or
(b) order that person to pay the deposit into the designated account held by the scheme administrator under an authorised custodial scheme,
within the period of 14 days beginning with the date of the making of the order.
(4) The court must also order the landlord to pay to the applicant a sum of money equal to three times the amount of the deposit within the period of 14 days beginning with the date of the making of the order.
(5) Where any deposit given in connection with a shorthold tenancy could not be lawfully required as a result of section 213(7), the property in question is recoverable from the person holding it by the person by whom it was given as a deposit.
(6) In subsection (5) “deposit” has the meaning given by section 213(8).

Cheers!

Lodger

EliteHeat

Jowo wrote: »

The penalty for landlord's non-compliance is x3 the sum of the deposit. Sorry but I don't know the form you fill in for this. It's worth mentioning this in the letter before action as such a penalty might make the landlord more motivated to repay your original deposit in full rather than get hit with a huge fine like that.

However, unfortunately the wording on the legislation is regarded as poor - many landlords who protect the deposit late but before the court case aren't ordered to pay compensation.

But surely they cannot register the deposit after the tenancy has terminated?

N79

EliteHeat wrote: »

But surely they cannot register the deposit after the tenancy has terminated?

Exactly - in this case returning the deposit could be enough to frustrate the claim for 3x. Here is the argument that I would use if I was ever in this position as a LL.

Read carefully the extract from the housing act quoted by lodger. Note that section 2 states that if the LL is non compliant then sections 3 and 4 apply (note that and is used to join both 3 and 4).

Now read section 4. It starts with "The court must also order" which seems to clearly imply that the penalty in section 4 must be applied along with section 3. The also means that section 4 is not stand alone, it could be argued that the application of section 4 depends on the application of section 3.

Now read section 3. If the LL protects or refunds the deposit before the court hearing then the court can not apply section 3 as the LL has no deposit to refund or protect, either because it is within the Ts possession or because it is in the possession of the DPS or protected by the rules of the TDS / my deposits.

If Section 3 can not be applied then can section 4? The inclusion of the word also makes interpretation of the link between section 3 and 4 difficult - it can go either way. The legislation is poor drafted because the word also should never have been included if the aim was to allow section 4 to operate independently of section 3.

Note that the OP should still threaten the 3x and then apply for it in court - at worst this will result in the return of the deposit. OP note that you do not use money claim online for a 3x deposit claim and you should use form N208 (and not form N1) if the claim is simply about deposit compliance.

N79

Jowo wrote: »

Sorry but I don't know the form you fill in for this.

I am just reposting this information again as it got a bit lost in my last post.

You need to fill in form N208 to claim for deposit non compliance. You can not do this as a moneyclaim online case.