Flexible tap connectors. Yes or no?

andrew-b

bambibashercol wrote: »

No i love plastic push fitting when diy people use them. I have had much work when they have installed them wrong, or for got to use the inserts, fairly common problem.

You like them for all the wrong reasons though! I'm saying they are good for "competent DIYers who can be bothered to RTFM and who have an iota of intellect". How are push-fits any different though to incompetent diyers messing with say compression fittings when they don't know what they are doing? IYSWIM, you note in your mind those bad push-fit installs because you are sceptical about them! Give it 20 years or so for push-fits to become more proven technology and we'll see how the plumbing world changes it's view!

bambibashercol wrote: »

Most installs abroad are 10 mm to the taps. If you have problems with the flow then it's more likely the old fashoned gravity hot water system still in use in this country. Abroad its mainly combi boilers and mains pressure unvented cylinders.

Indeed ...so it doesn't matter to them but many of us quirky Brits have gravity-fed systems still (even if the majority of boilers being installed are combis or other unvented systems) and will do for many years to come. I suspect gravity-fed systems will become more popular for MSErs soon when water meters become compulsory everywhere and all those power showers really start to run up the bills!

andrew-b

wallbash wrote: »

Out of interest how much smaller bore are flexi.

For 15mm pipework...about 3 to 5mm smaller diameter bore i think..doesn't seem much but remember x-section area of a pipe = pi x (diamater/2)squared

bambibashercol

I think copper pipe will always be around. It's greener as it gets scraped when its replaced.
Plastic pipe cannot be fitted direct to the boiler it still has to be finished in copper the last 1.5 meters. Copper pipe is still used to carry gas as plastic cannot be used in domestic properties. A study was done and copper pipe helps reduces leval of leigoneela.
Aircon is still run in copper as again no gas in plastic pipes.
I think we will in a few years see less gravity systems when the cost of unvented cylinders come down in price. With unvented you can have your power shower and no need for a shower pump.
I won't be retiring my blow lamp any time soon

DVardysShadow

andrew-b wrote: »

yes but your in the trade...i haven't come across many plumbers/heating engineer's who actually like using push-fits..i'm sure it's something to do with the fact that they are so easy to fit any DIYer can do it rather than pay plumber's prices to get them in!

As a professional cynic, I see where you are coming from. But I think it is more to do with if you are a professional plumber and you make push fit fittings your life's work, can you sleep well at night with all of the thousands you would install ready to burst.

For the DIYer though these things are a complete doddle and far easier than mucking around with spanners, PTFE tape and compression fittings, or blowtorches/solder/flux for soldered joins. Plus it means replacing the taps will be so much easier.

As a DIYer, spanners, PTFE tape and compression fittings, or blowtorches/solder/flux are not a problem. As long as you are prepared to spend on the proper tool for the job, it is easier that way, plus you get to sleep at night.

andrew-b

bambibashercol wrote: »

I think copper pipe will always be around. It's greener as it gets scraped when its replaced.
Plastic pipe cannot be fitted direct to the boiler it still has to be finished in copper the last 1.5 meters. Copper pipe is still used to carry gas as plastic cannot be used in domestic properties. A study was done and copper pipe helps reduces leval of leigoneela.
Aircon is still run in copper as again no gas in plastic pipes.
I think we will in a few years see less gravity systems when the cost of unvented cylinders come down in price. With unvented you can have your power shower and no need for a shower pump.
I won't be retiring my blow lamp any time soon

I'm not saying copper will disappear..far from it as plastic looks yuk if it's visible and as you say is essential for the connection to boiler. What i'm saying is that i think plumber's attitudes to push-fits will change once there are proven by having been around another 20 years or so with no problem (where correctly installed!).

You miss my point about high-pressure system and power showers though.. what i'm saying is that with our gravity-fed shower WITHOUT pump i will be using far less water than someone with a gravity-fed shower AND pump OR someone with
an unvented cylinder OR someone with a combi! Sure alot of people like a high-powered shower but when compulsory water metering comes into force it costs more so isn't moneysaving!

andrew-b

DVardysShadow wrote: »

As a professional cynic, I see where you are coming from. But I think it is more to do with if you are a professional plumber and you make push fit fittings your life's work, can you sleep well at night with all of the thousands you would install ready to burst.


As a DIYer, spanners, PTFE tape and compression fittings, or blowtorches/solder/flux are not a problem. As long as you are prepared to spend on the proper tool for the job, it is easier that way, plus you get to sleep at night.

I sleep perfectly well thanks with plastic pipe and fittings supplying the bathroom towel rail running along the ceiling above our room. The point is why are they ready to burst? Because a plumber has told you "solder fittings are best"? . "Dry" solder joints and badly done compression joints are just as likely to leak and take alot longer to fix when they do!

Beside most plumbers probably wouldn't care less and see it as repeat business if they were to burst..which they won't because being so professional they will have remembered to install the inserts right? Of course we all know there will be a plumber who happens to run out of inserts and thinks it's ok to leave them out as the customer will never notice!! I'm probably far more cynical than you in some respects ...just not about my push-fits!

andrew-b

Guess now i can expect a barrage of post from all the plumber's touting for business lol

Canucklehead

Hi


To the OP, when they say use a quality product they mean one such as this approved by WRAS.
I have read in various trade mags that the cheap ones also leave a rubber taste to the water.

As to the plastic /copper debate I have, and will, use plastic but it is not my preferred choice of pipe or fitting. (Flexis are useful for doing pedestal basin supplies).
Plastic is the only way to go in new build as the joists are drilled not notched and for UFH it's essential. (100m and no joints) Joints are my concern as the water seal is reliant on a rubber/nitrile 'o' ring . Having replaced numerous 'o' rings to sink mixer spouts I wonder about the life span of the 'o' rings . (all is fine until you move a joint)
As for reducing the bore... the inserts reduce the bore to 9mm. (on 15mm pipe) That's at least twice on every fitting.
Copper fittings don't reduce the bore at all . A pulled bend on copper will reduce resistance over a fitting bend.
As Bambi said copper has anti bacterial properties and studies have shown a reduction in levels of bacteria in hospitals after the introduction of brass and copper in the plumbing and other fittings. (that can't be a bad thing can it?)

Each product has it's place.

GSR

bambibashercol

Plastic pipe is used in new builds as Canucklehead said, as the plumbers can plumb a complete house in a less than a day if the plasteres have not been in.
they use it on site not because it is better but less expensive and quicker to fit.
You have to use plastic pipe for underfloor heating as the concrete screed woutld eat through copper. If you use plastic pipe for heating then it must be barrier pipe, British gas will not accept plastic pipe on the service plan unless its barrier pipe.
Another thing to consider when Designing you heating system is to check the heat loss on plastic pipe, It could become a problem if you a made a big boo boo with your heat load caculations.

27col

As to the competence or otherwise of DIYer's, I can only say that as one myself, I have had failures of soldered copper fittings, push-fit plastic fittings and compression fittings. In all cases it was due to some fault of my own and in all cases I rapidly learned how to do it correctly so that the fittings did not leak. However, now that I am aware of what can go wrong I make sure that nothing does go wrong. Anyone can make a mistake, but you are a bl***y idiot if you do not learn from it.