No returns?

confused90

soolin wrote: »

I fear you do misunderstand paypal when it is used with ebay and that does leave a buyer or a seller vulnerable. Regardless of laws, acts or statutes paypal WILL consider claims for item not as described as long as the purchase was through ebay. Many sellers will tell you that all claims will be found in favour of the buyer and a full refund given on return of the goods, I prefer to think there is an outside chance that paypal may well weigh up the situation and then and only then decide for or against a buyer.

i don't think i misunderstand paypal at all, merely that i just interpret the effectiveness and reliability of it differently than yourself.

Quite notably i do not at any point attempt to discredit or patronise you for difference of opinion and i wonder why you feel the need to do so with me? you are dragging a comment i made in another thread into this one despite it having no relevance to the op's question, why are you so angered by my stating that paypal are not in my opinion safe for the payment of expensive items that you are dragging this thread off topic to continue your point from the previous thread, while in the process making a lame attempt to paint me as an confused and unknowledgeable fool who contradicts himself?

i can not contradict myself here as we are discussing two different subjects entirely.

all my original post here was designed to do was point out why the seller may be refusing to refund, i.e that he believes it is his right in accordance with distance selling regs, the fact paypal may ignore those rights is another thing all together and if they do then maybe this buyer will benefit from the paypal system and get his money back as he should.....does this mean i'd retract my earlier post from the other thread and advise others to make major financial purchases using paypal? no it does not as the two situations are completely different and carry different circumstances and potential complications.

So am i a hypocrite? i don't think so........

RFW

confused90 wrote: »

This is only part right if the listing was an auction, with auction format listings the seller, whether private or business seller, does not need to accept returns even for faulty items the item only has to be what the seller said it was i.e if he says he's selling a beach ball be must provide a beach ball and not a football, if the beach ball arrives but it has a puncture in it then he still doesn't have to refund you.

google "distance Selling Regulations" for more information. Good luck.

This is poppycock! Selling by auction on or offline does not mean you can rip off buyers. If what you say is the case then I could sell an Ipod as brand new and it be a completely useless second with all the inside taken out and the buyer would have no come back, this is not legal at a saleroom and is certainly not legal online.

Legislation hasn't really caught up with online auctions and there are a number of grey areas, but common sense will always prevail. The statement above is misleading and incorrect.

confused90

RFW wrote: »

This is poppycock! Selling by auction on or offline does not mean you can rip off buyers. If what you say is the case then I could sell an Ipod as brand new and it be a completely useless second with all the inside taken out and the buyer would have no come back, this is not legal at a saleroom and is certainly not legal online.

Legislation hasn't really caught up with online auctions and there are a number of grey areas, but common sense will always prevail. The statement above is misleading and incorrect.

if you buy a car at auction and it turns out to be a pile of junk can you get your money back? no! and the same rules apply to online auctions, not fair but that’s how it works, your protection with auction sales is near non existent, the seller may or may not have known that the listing was misleading but either way he probably doesn't think he is doing anything wrong not least because ebay themselves tell the seller they don't have to accept returns and provide the option for "no returns" in the listing options.

Of course this doesn't make this situation fair or mean that paypal won't use common sense and instigate a refund but perhaps if people understood the lack of protection that the law provides in this kind of sale and knew that any assistance would be 100% dependant on paypal ignoring the law in favor of common sense then they would go into such sales with eyes wide open, buying at auction, any auction, is a risk so make sure you know what your doing before you buy or you too could end up in the same situation as the op.

SADIE

OP I would definitely listen to Soolin and I hope everything works out okay for you,

confused90 with the greatest respect your wrong, different T&C's with Ebay/Paypal than car auctions etc.

I've been buying and selling a little on Ebay over 10 years, no major problems, I have a bulging house of our collectables(mainly my dolls)it's been a while since I've sold anything but I'm thinking of dipping my toe back into the Ebay selling pool.

So to minimise problems as best as I can I've been catching up with any useful info Paypal/Ebay, there's lots of info out there, you just have to read and listen.:D

paul.carter

Thanks for all responses, glad to know Mr Logic is alive and well and posting under an assumed name.

An update, seller has offered an 80% refund which I have refused. They admit that there is a problem and a vital part needs replacing, but state that all was perfect when sent to me. So I'm certainly not dealing with a scammer, more likely someone who has the hump that something has gone wrong in the process. Have asked for a full refund but not asked for the postage I paid when returning the item, which wasn't cheap, but I'm willing to cede a little.

This is the only trouble I've had buying, if it all goes wrong then I'll be more wary in future. The savings I've made on ebay over the past 5 or so years easily negate this loss.

Selling, now that's a different issue. It didn't turn up, it's smashed to pieces but I'll keep it for a 20% refund, I'll pop a cheque in the post when it arrives, it's not new (despite shrink wrapping and manufacturers seal) and many, many more.

RFW

confused90 wrote: »

if you buy a car at auction and it turns out to be a pile of junk can you get your money back? no! and the same rules apply to online auctions, not fair but that’s how it works, your protection with auction sales is near non existent, the seller may or may not have known that the listing was misleading but either way he probably doesn't think he is doing anything wrong not least because ebay themselves tell the seller they don't have to accept returns and provide the option for "no returns" in the listing options.

Once again you are incorrect. There are caveats for buying at auction but even some car auctions now offer protection. The same rules do not apply to online auctions. If you sell an item new and working and it turns out to be either used or not working or both then the buyer has a comeback.
By the way I am an auctioneer and have been for 20 years so I do have some knowledge.
Even auction houses can be prosecuted under the Trades Description Act, many have been successfully on several occasions.

RFW

Just for clarity there is some good information here http://www.e-victims.org/e-shopping-auction/factsheets/know-your-rights-when-buying-in-an-online-auction.html

When you buy in an online auction
You have just as many rights buying from a business trader on an online auction site as you do if you bought the goods from a shop - and sometimes you have more.

SADIE

Thanks for the update Paul, glad it worked out for you.

mrcol1000

I think the confusion is that if you sell something second hand as advertised as working and it works for a day then breaks you have no recourse. But if you sell something as fully working and its broken then you can make a claim. Outside of Ebay you would have to go through small claims court. The only loophole is if you brought something and there was no description of whether it worked or not. As for shops you have the same rights under the Sale of Goods Act 1979 wether its new or old.

So I can see what confused is saying but its only half right and Ebay have their own rules and regulations which you have to follow and if you don't like then you can sell it for 10p at a car boot sale.

RFW

mrcol1000 wrote: »

I think the confusion is that if you sell something second hand as advertised as working and it works for a day then breaks you have no recourse. But if you sell something as fully working and its broken then you can make a claim. Outside of Ebay you would have to go through small claims court. The only loophole is if you brought something and there was no description of whether it worked or not. As for shops you have the same rights under the Sale of Goods Act 1979 wether its new or old.

So I can see what confused is saying but its only half right and Ebay have their own rules and regulations which you have to follow and if you don't like then you can sell it for 10p at a car boot sale.

That's not really correct either. You can have recourse in buying a second hand items as working that breaks after a day through no fault of your own. There are grey areas as I mentioned previously but the consumer still has rights when buying in auction on or offline. They do have more rights when buying online. If that was not the case then there wouldn't have been high profile cases of large auction houses being successfully sued and prosecuted for selling fake paintings.