Are Tips illegal???

Anihilator

Sparhawke wrote: »

But the original point still has not been answered.

Do the administrators have the right to say that tips are illegal and yet hold them back for the creditors?

No, they do not have this right, if they say they are illegal they should return them to the people who gave them. By simply holding them back from the people who they were intended for and yet making it appear that it is illegal for them to contest it they are on the wrong side of the law.

If I gave a service charge which at the bottom of the receipt was said it is going to the staff I would hit the roof if I later found out that someone working on behalf of a particular person or group had taken it for their use.

If I give £10 to a charity then I expect that amount to go into the charities coffers less certain fees that are always incurred, yet if all the money I donated was simply shunted off to pay some fatcat then I would have every right to go off on one.

If the bottom of the receipt stated that "this service charge does not go in any part to the staff yet pays off the creditors" then there would be no problem, but there is no two ways around it, they are taking those tips fraudulantly by stating they are illegal and still not returning them to the customers who paid them.

The service charge belongs to the restaurant hence if they give it away without legal obligation to do so the act is "illegal" under in insolvency act.

The service charge rarely states it is meant for staff hence this paragraph is irrelevent.

A donation to a charity can be used for anything they want if you dont restrict it. This includes paying for staff, consultants etc

Your just being a bit thick now. Why would it say that? If the company are legally obligated to give it the staff or say they are and dont then there are repercussions.

If they simply charge a "service charge" and the employees arent entitled to it under contracrt then yes there would be legal repercussions.

OP based on the links provided.

Cash - this is yours to keep. You can contibute to a float to be split or pocket it. Any attempt to prevent this is not allowed

Cheques/Cards and added to the bottom as a service charge - unless its in your contract the company can keep this and in administration if they didnt the insolvency practitioner would be breaching their legal duties.

Sparhawke is just saying what he thinks and it will not stand up legally.

Sparhawke

No, I am not being thick, I am answering the original posters question which you still havent bothered to do. You are the troll here.

The question originally asked, again for the fifth time:

Are administrators allowed to tell staff that tips are illegal yet STILL keep them back for the creditors?

Just answer the question instead of throwing insults around.

Anihilator

Sparhawke wrote: »

No, I am not being thick, I am answering the original posters question which you still havent bothered to do. You are the troll here.

The question originally asked, again for the fifth time:

Are administrators allowed to tell staff that tips are illegal yet STILL keep them back for the creditors?

Just answer the question instead of throwing insults around.

No they are not.

However its quite clear that this isnt what has been said and has been misinterpreted by someone.

Is it illegal to take tips ? No

Is it illegal for the company to take tips then give them to staff when they are not obligated under law. Yes

Can the OP's employer keep the tips. Well yes if its not a cash one,it isnt in their contract that they keep them and it isnt stated anywere they go directly to staff.

Sparhawke

Thank you, so we are both agreed that there is no way the administrators can say that they are breaking the law by putting out cash boxes for tips and explaining why they are doing such a thing?

And we are both agreed that them stating that "tips are illegal" and then them taking the money without returning to their "rightful" owners is stealing? (If tips are indeed illegal then they should be returned to their rightful owners, not kept back to pay a creditor...it is not the restaurants money)

Yes, I agree with you that until something is actually written down or verbally agreed (not an unspoken implication) there is no leg to stand on, they can argue it all they want...it is simply customary for the gratuities to go to the staff and that is what 99% of people believe, with 15-30% taken for sorting it out. But by the same token an administrator cannot say that the gratuities belong to the restaurant and not the staff for which they were meant unless a contract was signed such, which no waiter would ever agree to...it is this point that is causing arguments

zzzLazyDaisy

Sparhawke wrote: »

they are taking those tips fraudulantly by stating they are illegal and still not returning them to the customers who paid them.

I suspect that there has been a misunderstanding about what has been said.

It is probably unlikely that the administrators have stated that it is illegal to accept tips from customers since tipping is common practice and clearly not illegal. It more likely that what the administrators were saying is that it would be illegal for them to pay those tips to the employees, over and above their wages, while the company is in administration with unpaid creditors. That may well be the case if the employees are earning above minimum wage, and have no contractual entitlement to receive the tips.

I agree, from a personal point of view I'd be annoyed if I tipped someone and the company got the benefit, which is why I always tip in cash and make sure I put the money into the hand of the person whose service I am rewarding.

But unfortunately, often the legal position has nothing to do with morals.

Anihilator

gingermingerr wrote: »

You're WRONG!

The company CANNOT do what they want with the tips! They are for the waiting staff - and that was made law in October. They can't be put towards the waiting staffs salary, and they can't be put towards their own overheads.

People should ALWAYS ALWAYS cross out the service charge and deduct it, then pay the waiting staff their tips in cash.

No I am not wrong.

As backed up by plenty of evidence in this thead only cash tips belong to waiting staff. Any other sort belong to the company and hence the administrators would be acting contrary to the law in giving them too staff.

breadlinebetty

new law which came into effect on 1st October states that the management cannot keep the service charge money to top up the minimum wage - neither can they use it to pay overheads of any sort! They HAVE to give it back to the staff!

Here is a link to an article written by AA Gill in the Sunday Times just a few weeks back.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/lif...cle6860080.ece

Personally, I NEVER pay the service charge in restaurants. I tell them to remove it.

I pay the waiter or waitress directly, and how much I pay is dependant on how good the waiter service has been.

Waiting staff earn very poor money and work long unsociable hours, and as they are the ones who serve me my food, and are the most instrumental in making my experience a pleasant one, then my tip is meant for that waiter and no-one else!

My tip is for THE SERVICE - not the food - which I already pay for in the bill! The chef will be on FAR more money than any of the waiting staff are, and so he should not get a share of that tip. As for the other staff (porters/cleaners etc) they are not working with the general public and cannot expect tips. That would be like going to the hairdressers and after tipping the girl who washes your hair, giving them a few pound on top for the cleaners who come in at night and mop the floor!

I advise everyone to tell the manager to remove the service charge from the bill, and to tip the waiter/waitress in cash.

breadlinebetty

You are completely wrong, Anihilator. It's in black and white for all and sundry to read......what's your problem?!:money:

Anihilator

I would suggest you are reading these articles out of context and it wouldnt be backed up by law.

breadlinebetty

Just so that you understand and grasp it, Anihilator, I'll explain it to you in very simple terms.

Since 1st October, 2009 any money taken by a restaurant as 'service charge' cannot be put towards making up the waiting staffs minimum wage. Furthermore, none of that money from the 'service charge' can go towards paying overheads, such as rent, heating, breakages, food etc............


ALL the service charge MUST be divided between the waiting staff, and added to their basic salary at the end of the week or month.

To do that, the restaurant, by law. must open up a separate bank account so all the 'service charge' money goes into it and is divided amongst the waiters.

Some restaurants find this too fiddly, and are just removing the service charge altogether, so waiting staff will get their tips directly from the customer.

If a restaurant is still charging a 'service charge' the customer should ask the waiter if they are receiving it ON TOP of their basic pay each month. If they are NOT, then deduct the SERVICE CHARGE FROM THE BILL (I DO THAT REGARDLESS) and pay a cash tip directly to the waiter. You then have the choice of paying what you think is appropriate for the service you received. Maybe you think the service was not up to scratch and so leave nothing at all, or maybe you're bowled over by the service and decide to leave a well-deserved tip.

It's important that the public know about this devious practice, and any restaurant still charging Service Charge and keeping it themselves can be fined very heavily and taken to court. Anyone spotting Service Charge on a bill should ask the waiter if he receives it ON TOP of his wages. If not, then scrub it off!

Besides all that, it's much better that a waiter knows his tip will rely on the service he gives, both for him and more importantly - the customer.