Liz Jones is Credit Crunched in the end.....

lostinrates

Lotus-eater wrote: »

I've often wondered what I could use one for, non horse related. I don't think it's ever going to come up, because once a smallholding gets horsey type stuff the price goes up.
But a barn isn't really practical on that size and tbh I wouldn't want one with a sand floor, also what other animals would you want to keep on sand?

I dread to think how much time and money it would cost to get rid of one. How much do they cost anyway?

Sand wouldn't take mush to get rid off.... the wind used to take a lot away in one I rode in most as a kid

To put in? for a small (20m x40 is standard domestic size....because 20 metres is the standradwidth for dressage, but by 60 metres at all but the basic levels.. very basically, you need the 20 metre width for the horses balance, and the straight side so as not to make the horse crooked, but that is a GROSS simplification).

Sand is a mixed blessing, though it is abrasive on skin its fantastic for horn...but ones I've seen converted are put on woodchips, which then gets dug out...yuck.

I reckon cheapest one with correct drainage would be IIRO £15k. I know people who have spent many times that because of site or quality.

fc123

ninky wrote: »

at the risk of sounding like a sort of pre-feminist dinosaur, i think liz jones is probably the sort of person that would be in a much better situation if she'd been lucky enough to marry the right sort of person. someone who would have given her the self-esteem not to need to spend like she does and manage her neuroses.

Spot on Nilnky but sounding very non Germaine Greer and I hate to write it....maybe it sounds better if you say 'Life Partner'' or ''Soulmate'' as she never met the right one.

Anyways...a few little things that don't add up are coming through....she went on about being the only sibling (out of 7) and had to pay for their mothers care home fees all on her own...as the rest couldn't/wouldn't and then we find out her brother is loaded up (unless he has 200k of debt too).

Then, the suicide writing that DS referred to.......I couldn't comment this morning as I was skiving on MSE for 10 mins (as you do ) then had to catch a train....but I was thinking about it today...the editor, if he really thought it was true would no way have published it...so I am sniffing a story and set up here...

Nikkster

This article was in the Evening Standard tonight:
Why Liz Jones and John Humphrys love London

13.05.10


Liz Jones: I love London
I was in London a couple of weeks ago. I parked my car in Kensington so that I could load up with supplies from Whole Foods and took a cab to the photographic studio in Hackney where I was to interview a celebrity. Normally, I avoid driving through Islington: I'd lived in a leafy garden square in an immaculate Georgian house and, since moving to Exmoor upon my divorce two years ago, I've not felt strong enough to drive past, so deep is my longing for its high ceilings and pale wooden floors.
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/lifestyle/article-23833515-why-liz-jones-and-john-humphrys-love-london.do

It was on the whole pretty tame compared to the usual, although this made me smile:
I went down to my village to vote last week and was met with cries (from officials) of, “Well, it's Liz Jones. From the papers. Who are you going to vote for, then?”

But this particularly caught my eye:
The Exmoor Files, based on Liz's column in YOU Magazine, is published by Phoenix on Thursday, £6.99 pbk.

So looks like guesses that tales were being elaborated on to gear up for a book weren't too wild?!

PasturesNew

lostinrates wrote: »

A ''manege'' is also known as an out door school...like a big rectangle filled with sand/or rubber chips to exercise horses in. Almost everybody has one now,

I know ... I can hardly move for them in my back garden!

lostinrates wrote: »

In the west contry, I concede, its harder here, there never being anywhere you can work a horse through all the wet months without risking injury to the horse, or ruining the land.

Ever taken a horse onto the beach? That's where they go here.

lostinrates wrote: »

...

I've never been on a horse. Seen them in fields though.

PasturesNew

Lotus-eater wrote: »

...unless you are into 4 legged money pits,

There was an article about the cost of pets in the DM about two weeks ago. They had a big grid of how long pets live and how much they cost to keep, on average, per year, over their lifetime.

Everything from a hamster to a horse.

Horses weighed (or neighed) in at about £12,500/year (from memory). That is pretty much my entire household income for a year... so if I got one I'd be sleeping in its stables and eating its leftovers.

At that price, I'd want one that lasted about an hour.

ninky_2

PasturesNew wrote: »

There was an article about the cost of pets in the DM about two weeks ago. They had a big grid of how long pets live and how much they cost to keep, on average, per year, over their lifetime.

Everything from a hamster to a horse.

Horses weighed (or neighed) in at about £12,500/year (from memory). That is pretty much my entire household income for a year... so if I got one I'd be sleeping in its stables and eating its leftovers.

At that price, I'd want one that lasted about an hour.

one issue i have is horses and land use. why is it you seem to be able to get permission to put any sort of ugly stable block up to house horses and you are allowed to let them use greenbelt land (even though they have no agricultural purpose), yet if you want to live on that land and grow vegetables etc to feed yourself that is against the rules??? plus of course no one is allowed to walk on that land because of the precious horses. it's invasion of the greenbelt by the rich and their toys as usual.:mad:

lostinrates

ninky wrote: »

one issue i have is horses and land use. why is it you seem to be able to get permission to put any sort of ugly stable block up to house horses and you are allowed to let them use greenbelt land (even though they have no agricultural purpose), yet if you want to live on that land and grow vegetables etc to feed yourself that is against the rules??? plus of course no one is allowed to walk on that land because of the precious horses. it's invasion of the greenbelt by the rich and their toys as usual.:mad:

I think there ar a lot of issues with green belt. If no houses are to be built Then, IMO, perhaps no stables should be either. If houses are already there then they shoul be allow development. Farming development (barns etc) is another different thing altogether. Of course, not all horses/ponies have stabling. And some are used for ecological grazing (years ago there was talk of perhaps using them um...near Farnham I think, maybe Devils dyke, so further out).

In terestingly anecdotally the use of horses for logging and things like ploughing seems to be reemerging. where we are buying we think in summer months we should be able to deal with DH's commute to station by horse: if I can get my body to cope with it (we'd both ride there, I'd lead his horse back.)


any land with a Public right of way you can walk through, regardless of what is in it, any land without ...whether its horses, bullocks whatever...then greenbelt or other . wise, you can't. I suppose some people use the horses to enjoy the greenbelt, many equestrian businesses certainly exist with in it. I suppose, for planners thats another issue, if you have a riding school thats doing very well and wants to expand . I used to live in the greenbelt and I have to say the provision of public rights of way: foot paths and bridle paths, was amazingly better than ''out here''

Horses do, under traditional modes of keeping them, use a lot of land, and personally, I will not keep a healthy horse either stabled all day and night, nor living in isolation. which reduces land use, but not nice at all for the animals. Personally, I would be pleased to see more cross grazing, possibly through local cooperation . Os better for the land, can reduce the need for chemical intervention in more than the obvious ways, and can be more ecological. Its certainly better use of the same acrage. I've always been happy to cross graze simultaneously: I believe it to be better replication of what happens in a feral situation (think new forest) and in the wild, to a lesser degree. But very few other people are: not usually the horse keepers though!

ninky_2

i wouldn't consider a commute to work by horse as environmentally friendly. as you say they use a lot of land (that could be used for food production) and they also produce a lot of methane which is a far more potent greenhouse gas than co2. if we went back to using horses instead of cars i think we'd be in a worse situation than we are now.

unfortunately when it comes to the environment a lot of people are quite luddite in outlook and automatically thing 'countryside ways' good, 'city ways' bad.

technically you are correct about the right of way issue but i have noticed that on non horse land there is generally more generosity and allowing people to roam than on horse land.

lostinrates

PasturesNew wrote: »

Horses weighed (or neighed) in at about £12,500/year (from memory). That is pretty much my entire household income for a year... so if I got one I'd be sleeping in its stables and eating its leftovers.

At that price, I'd want one that lasted about an hour.

Mine don't cost anything like. I suppose now in the part they add on to mortgage costs they might.

I'm ''lucky'' in that I rarely need professional services. Vaccs, teeth (I could even press someone into teeth). I use someone for feet, but at a push I could trim my own. My guess is the law will change to ban this in the future, but I could then do a course and qualify. The reason I don't is because on my back/physical strength/mobility: and because the woman who does my horse's feet is really, really good: whereas I would be ''adequate''. Feet can be anything from £10-20 pounds every couoe of months (you'll rarely find people do this though,) or £80 every four-six weeks. Remedial shoeing is often claimable against medical insurance.That can be hilariously expensive. Horses are almost routinely shod: but, IMO to the beneft of horses, more people are investigating the methods of keeing horses ''bare foot''. which in very many, perhaps the majority of ''pet'' as opposed to serious competitive, horses is workable IF management is correct. One brave racehorse trainer, at least, is racing horses barefooted, much to the ridicule of others. If done well, IMO, this stands to reduce costs, reduce impact on land (it certainly has for me) and improve the horses' lots (so long as people who don't understand it don't trim. There have been terrible, terrible methods of trimming horses feet.)

People spend an awful lot unnecessarily on horses/ponies. a lot of very expensive things people do are often contraindicatory to the horse's well being. I know more than one person on benefits who keeps a horse/pony, and lots of single parents (almost typed mother's but stopped myself just in time). Its quite simple: I couldn't keep them if they cost me that much!

lostinrates

ninky wrote: »

i wouldn't consider a commute to work by horse as environmentally friendly. as you say they use a lot of land (that could be used for food production) and they also produce a lot of methane which is a far more potent greenhouse gas than co2. if we went back to using horses instead of cars i think we'd be in a worse situation than we are now.

unfortunately when it comes to the environment a lot of people are quite luddite in outlook and automatically thing 'countryside ways' good, 'city ways' bad.

technically you are correct about the right of way issue but i have noticed that on non horse land there is generally more generosity and allowing people to roam than on horse land.

re cars: sort of agree. certainly agree that horses can be environmentally unfriendly, tough I feel people are too....ultimately I think the problem is too many people (and other animals to ''provie for us'' but instead of looking at ways to provide more sustenance for more people I think we need to look at birth rates, so, the people/animals on the planet can all have a greater quality of life.. An economists nightmare...who WILL pay our pensions.

If you are having trouble with acess to public footpaths across horse land may I suggest you talk to the appropriate council. It is NOT permissable to not let you use the foot path/access, and the horse owners must take responsibility for making other arrangements. This might mean fencing off the path, insurance has a lot to do with that, or experience....

my old girls are fine with people in the field, the other day they paced behind a friend of mine with his tractor. ATM I'm more precious about my chickens! TBH I find famrers very protective of their land: roaming off paths can cause damage to crops or upset of animals. A lot will depend what you are walking through.

eta: country side god? N'uhu, we drive further (and more shorter distances, and current mainstream practice is environmentally very heavy at times.) what is good is eace, not living on top of people, community, many of the rural skills, etc etc: my interest is in these really, and how commercial practice can be improved.

edit: I learned recently that many tenant farmers are REQUIRED to ensure their is no drifting from RoW: regardless of what is in the field. They will certainly be hoping walkers walk as the laws rightly enable them and no more.