Advice re tree/boundary please!

YorkiePud_3

Hello there,

I know I probably need to contact the Land Registry but they are closed till Monday now and if poss, I could do with some advice rightaway if anyone has been in a similar position!

Okay, I live halfway up a very steep hill. At the end of my back garden I have sheds, then a fence, a tree and about a metre of land before it drops away to a steep banking. At the very bottom of the banking are a row of houses. They are about 30 or 40 feet below.

I have always been under the impression that my land was the land right up to where it starts to drop away ... in fact, the neighbour has a greenhouse and a number of trees at his side, beyond the garden fence and before the banking drops away.

I'm an avid birdwatcher and get lots of birds feeding in my garden, plus a lot nesting in my tree and starlings roosting there every night.

Today when I was standing in my driveway chatting to my neighbour, I heard wood cracking, so, thinking it may be a cat, I went to shoo the birds out of my garden for their own safety.
Couldn't believe it when it was actually the bloke who lives at the bottom of the banking trying to saw part of my tree down!!!!!

I shouted, "Excuse me ... you're not chopping all my tree down are you?!" and he told me to mind my own f'ing business.
I said, "Hey ... there's no need to be nasty! ... the tree is way above your property and overhanging my garden ... it's not causing any problems to you at all, so you can't cut it down!"

He told me his address and said, rather menacingly, if I wanted to come round he'd sort me out there and then.

So I shouted (neither of us could see each other, he was so far down the banking) that the tree was on my land and that anything over the drop was his land to do what he wanted with. I said, "Look, there's no need to be nasty about it ... the tree isn't doing anything to you or your property and there are birds using it daily, nesting and roosting in it."

He shouted a few more f words at me but went down the banking and I could hear him cutting and hacking much lower down.
Which is fine by me .. as I say, talking to our neighbours, our understanding is that right up to the drop (we are talking half a metre or one metre at most) is our land and anything after that is theirs.

The tree is on the land behind my fence but before the drop and it grows over into my garden so it isn't causing a nuisance to him (it's too high up to!) so goodness knows why he has taken it on himself to have a go at it.

Anyway, all's quiet on the western front at the moment but I don't mind admitting I am still shaky ... I gave as good as I got though and hopefully he will think it is more trouble than it's worth to come back for round two, but just incase anyone else has been in this predicament I wondered if they might have any advice to put me on till Monday?

I am so sorry to write such a long post, please excuse any spelling mistakes cos I am still wound up .. and I am not sure I have even put it in the right place .. I am so sorry if I haven't, but as I say, I would really appreciate any words of wisdom!!

Thank you!!

choille

You need to have a look see at your deeds.

It does sound like it is on your ground, but double check.

He sounds like a right nasty piece of work though & good for you standing your ground - to use a pun!

Also good that your neighbour backs you up, but you do need to check this out.
Btw - Birds only nest when they have eggs or young chicks - which I'm sure you know.

This guy sounds like he could be bother by his manner & attitude so it was good you had a witness.
I do hope he doesn't try anything else.
Is he new in the area?

YorkiePud_3

Hi choille and thanks for replying ... *S* .. yes, I should have said my tree is the one they use to nest in when they have babies. They use it every year and have done so for 6 years now so my neighbours on both sides keep a look out for cats etc and I never trim the tree myself ... then, they use it (as they do now) most of the day and to roost in at night.

It makes it sound like a whopping big tree but it's about ... hmmm ... 12 feet tall at the most, and as I say it is at the top of a sheer drop, on the land beyond my fence, so it's not casting shade or anything on his bungalow at the bottom of the banking.
I can't for a minute think why he has suddenly wanted to have a go at it, so far away from his own bungalow ... *shakes head* ... but it really got me how intimidatory he was with me ...

I don't know if he is new to the area or not to be honest ... as I say with those bungalows being right at the bottom, we can't see them and don't have anything to do with anyone down there.

I am pretty sure the tree would be classed as being my land .. but then why have the fence this side of it ... unless there had been some collapse down the banking and the fences were moved back this way at some point in the past ... oh, what a day!!

Davesnave

You can do the Land Registry enquiry on-line up to midnight on Saturdays. It will cost you about £4 for a downloaded copy of your title plan. This may (or may not) show you what you need to know!

Unfortunately, the Public Guide 19 to Title Plans & Boundaries seems to be unavailable from one of their links , but the PDF is working on the link I'm sending under 'Forms & Publications.'

http://www.landregistry.gov.uk/www/wps/portal/!ut/p/c1/04_SB8K8xLLM9MSSzPy8xBz9CP0os3gfN1MTQwt381BD_2A3A08LT2cL49AwIwN_Y6B8JG55dyNKdBsYEqPbAAdwNCCgOxzkV_xuxycPch1IHo_9wal5-n4e-bmp-gW5oaERBpkB6Y6KigCC11pb/dl2/d1/L2dJQSEvUUt3QS9ZQnB3LzZfTEY1NDE4RzdVMU9TRjBJOElDODNVVjIwMDM!

To find your title plan go to 'Find a Property'

rhiwfield

You can get details of your land from land registry online so you dont have to wait until monday. It'll cost you £4 to get a definitive map LINK

EDIT: Davesnave got here first!

choille

Could be he's looking for some free firewood!
Just as well you were there & kinda caught him - may put him off.
I do hope it is on your ground & he hasn't damaged the tree - what an idiot he sounds.

YorkiePud_3

rhiwfield wrote: »

You can get details of your land from land registry online so you dont have to wait until monday. It'll cost you £4 to get a definitive map LINK

EDIT: Davesnave got here first!

Thanks both of you ... but having looked at the details in the example plan I don't think it will be in-depth enough in detail to show me ... I think it could probably come down to someone coming out and judging it by looking at it ... gggrrrrr!!

Davesnave

Further thoughts: Boundary disputes are very common, but extremely expensive to resolve. A lot will hang on the use of the land over the preceding period of 12 years, and on who knows how it has been used. It may be that your title plan will resolve the matter, but they often aren't detailed enough.

In my last house, the Ordnance Survey map clearly showed an area of land to be inside my garden, but to this day, that land remains unregistered and it definitely never belonged to me, being outside the red line on the title plan. Maps alone, even large scale ones, are therefore not very helpful.

As I see this at the moment, it doesn't help that this tree lies beyond your fence. Most people take fences to be the boundary, so no matter how strange it might seem to you, from this man's point of view he thought he was on his own land. The fact that you challenged him may have caused shock and an out of character response, though of course it doesn't excuse his rudeness. When the situation has calmed, both of you may be able to discuss things rationally and come to an amicable agreement, which is by far the best outcome for both of you.

At present, you are a bit shocked, but that will wear off. It is very unlikely that this man will take things any further. Speak with your neighbours tomorrow and see what you can learn from them about the historical use of the land in question.

ETA: Our posts crossed, but I see you have found out that title plans are often pants!

YorkiePud_3

choille wrote: »

Could be he's looking for some free firewood!
Just as well you were there & kinda caught him - may put him off.
I do hope it is on your ground & he hasn't damaged the tree - what an idiot he sounds.

Aye, like a 2 by 4 round the back of his head if he doesn't behave!!! Sorry ... but having sat and stewed about it, I am so blooming mad ... I mean, what gave him the right to be so menacing to me?

I mean ok, I wasn't the frail little woman by any means and let him have it back, but why do some men think they can overpower you by menace?

At least if the bad weather comes tomorrow he shouldn't be up the banking having another crack, so if I phone first thing on Monday I should have an idea and be armed.

Yes, I really do hope it is on my ground ... more for the birds than anything else. Everyone up and down the hill seem to have had their trees chopped down and the stumps dug up ... there are only 3 other trees on this side including my own for the birds to use.

YorkiePud_3

Davesnave wrote: »

Further thoughts: Boundary disputes are very common, but extremely expensive to resolve. A lot will hang on the use of the land over the preceding period of 12 years, and on who knows how it has been used. It may be that your title plan will resolve the matter, but they often aren't detailed enough.

In my last house, the Ordnance Survey map clearly showed an area of land to be inside my garden, but to this day, that land remains unregistered and it definitely never belonged to me, being outside the red line on the title plan. Maps alone, even large scale ones, are therefore not very helpful.

As I see this at the moment, it doesn't help that this tree lies beyond your fence. Most people take fences to be the boundary, so no matter how strange it might seem to you, from this man's point of view he thought he was on his own land. The fact that you challenged him may have caused shock and an out of character response, though of course it doesn't excuse his rudeness. When the situation has calmed, both of you may be able to discuss things rationally and come to an amicable agreement, which is by far the best outcome for both of you.

At present, you are a bit shocked, but that will wear off. It is very unlikely that this man will take things any further. Speak with your neighbours tomorrow and see what you can learn from them about the historical use of the land in question.

ETA: Our posts crossed, but I see you have found out that title plans are often pants!

Hi again!

Yes, I just don't think the plans will help me really ... it's a bit of a weird one too, with it being a sheer drop just beyond the tree so from there down the banking to his back garden is a "no man's land" I guess .. I am wondering now if it is registered to anyone ... I think I shall have to follow it up though and get to know for definite incase there is ever any legal reason to need to know.

Well, I'll certainly remember this Halloween!! *LOL*

Davesnave

Just remember, boundary disputes are manna from heaven for solicitors. A relative of mine is 2 years in and at £6 500 and counting! Yes, I'm sure they'll 'win' but meanwhile...........!