Baines & Ernst Aggro!

sacphil

Well, it seems this post is taking off, and that I'm not the only one having difficulties! I have been looking into the review thats taking place of the course of today, but also looking through the current Debt Managament Guidance available on the OFT website and it appears that B&E are in direct contravention of a number of the points raised in there.

Things took another turn for the worse today when I was contacted to be told that my larger debt had been transferred from IF to Robsinson Way & Co in May 2006, and amazingly, B&E had no idea of this and have been paying my money to IF ever since. To make matters worse, IF have no records of ever having received the money......this is to the tune of circa £3500 of my money which has disappeared into the ether, so as of now I have to wait even longer for them to 'find' my money!

Beyond a joke now. I'm definitely cancelling my agreement, and will be looking to recoup all of the funds that they are currently holding (including the money that they have lost through their complete negligence). I will also be looking into trying to recoup the management fees that I have paid to them since I started as the way I see it, it is fraudulent practice to charge a management fee, when in reality, they aren't actually managing anything at all. I will keep you all updated with my progress, but I wouldnt expect anything quickly, as past experience tells me that a trained monkey could probably answer my questions quicker than they can. Although, if a response is not forthcoming I will be registering a complaint witht the Financial Ombudsman Service.

My apologies to you Nick, this is not directed at you personally but to the company as a whole. I feel that in my current situation and considering how far down the line this is, I would rather deal with this through official channels. However, if you PM me I will be happy to provide you with my real name (but not account reference numbers). I'm sure you will be able to find my records and my contact details from there. Again, my apologies for seeming cagey, but I'm not going to be releasing my personal account details to someone who posted a message on a forum. (No disrespect to anyone intended).

Keep on fighting the good fight people!!!

Nickpearson_3

Hi

I hope sacphil won't mind me saying that he has contacted me direct and we are investigating the issues he has raised as a matter of urgency.

On a general point, one of the great difficulties all debt management firms face, whether free to consumer or fee charging, is that lenders frequently sell on debts to debt purchase firms without informing us that the debt has been sold on to. This can be further compounded by the debt being sold on from one debt purchase firm to another and again we are frequently not informed of the sale and new details for customer payments. In these cases the money continues to be send by us to the creditor we believe holds the account. The original creditors then hold this money in suspended accounts and fail to pass it on to whoever they sold the debt to. This can obviously lead to considerable confusion and concern but invariably the issues are resolved satisfactorily once we become aware of the situation. In short, lenders are often in breech of the OFT debt collection guidance with regard to passing on sufficient details about the account to debt purchase firms but their lack of efficiency reflects badly on us as firms.

Former_MSE_Andrea

Hi everyone

Just to let you know Nickpearson does genuinely represent Baines & Ernst but we're not currently giving fee-paying companies full company representative status.

Andrea

MrsTinks

Nick I can appreciate your point, but - and my views on the morals of your business aside - would you agree that failing to adhere to OFT guidelines and failing to return customers complaint calls would not lead to your company being seen in a particularly positive light - regardless of what business you are in...
Whether the funds are held by you or another company - YOU are paid a fee to manage the matters and that surely should include managing communications with the "customer" - if £3.5k has been "mislaid" by a creditor then surely regular calls to the debtor should be taking place without the need to chase you? If I failed to update one of my clients several times a day I would be up for a diciplinary!

Charco_2

Valid point about the lack of communication from B&E to Phil, very unprofessional but similarly Nick does have a point about how difficult it is to work with the banks/credithouses/DCAs - presumably Phil would have received word from a DCA that they would now be pursuing his case and these letters (or phonecalls) should have been forwarded onto his Debt Man Company!

Without some communication from the banks about what they've done with the account, it's like playing a game of follow the pea (ye know, hidden under one of three walnut shells) with a street conman!

As for calling the morals of Debt Management into question, i just don't understand that... you get a service, you pay for it!
Just because the banks then started their own "free" service does that mean you should shut down your business and fire all your staff?
What did the banks get by now providing a charity Debt Management company service for free? I can imagine that board room meeting: "hey i've an idea, you know how our customers pay for debt management!? well why dont we pay for it instead out of the generosity of our dumb old hearts!"
"get out, you're fired!"

RAS

Charco

Which DMP/IVA provider do you work for?

MrsTinks

Charco - it may be difficult working with the creditors - but uhmm... hate pointing this out... THIS IS WHAT THE CUSTOMER PAYS YOU TO DO

As for your comment about CCCS etc - let me highlight a VERY important word... it's C H A R I T Y... by being a charity they are subject to... yes that's right... THE charity commission rules... if EVER you have had to deal with them you would know that they aren't strict... they are SO strict that they would make Mother Theresa and Ghandi look like slackers on spring break!

Yes the banks donate money to the charities (no doubt for tax breaks and because they would actually rather people repaid their debts than not - ofcourse there is a reason for them to donate money - we're not completely naive...) however they have NO say in the running of the charities or how they conduct their business. If you are trying to say otherwise then I suggest you look up the word "libel" in the dictionary

Charco_2

I didn't say CCCS!

And the only thing i do say about them is readily available information on their website anyway so I'll not worry too much about that.

I know this is what you are paid to do if you run a DMP and I'm not making excuses (especially since it really doesn't concern me) but is it ok for you to call a companies ethics/morals into question and then skip away. You dont like DMPs or B&E or whatever, we get it! It's a whole new concept that just might take this forum by storm!

Things aren't always black and white! IP = Evil, CCCS = Angel :rolleyes:

And do forget, the CCCS in America used to be a charity too
http://209.85.229.132/search?q=cache:QfisHXuCquQJ:www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/responsible_credit.html+CCCS+Utah&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk

MrsTinks

Charco wrote: »

I didn't say CCCS!

Really? Huh...

Charco wrote: »

Would you ask the wolves to look after the sheep?
CCCS funded by banks

Could have sworn you did Silly me...

Charco wrote: »

And the only thing i do say about them is readily available information on their website anyway so I'll not worry too much about that.

I know this is what you are paid to do if you run a DMP and I'm not making excuses (especially since it really doesn't concern me) but is it ok for you to call a companies ethics/morals into question and then skip away. You dont like DMPs or B&E or whatever, we get it! It's a whole new concept that just might take this forum by storm!

Things aren't always black and white! IP = Evil, CCCS = Angel :rolleyes:

Making money out of people struggling to repay their debts seems moral to you? fair enough - we'll have to disagree on that point then... Especially an overcharged and generally badly provided service... (you notice I didn't say the overcharged part was "generally" - I think that's pretty permanent across the board... feel free to provide evidence to the contrary...)

FYI - I don't "skip away" - as you can see infact I have over 10,000 posts to show I don't "skip away"

Point of clarity - on here we use DMP for Debt Management Plan - something we DEFINITELY like, support and advise people about on a daily basis. We don't generally call people who profit from peoples ignorance on the ability to not only manage them themselves or using a free service DMPs - small point possibly

Charco_2

Could have sworn you did Silly me... In my post, concentrate! I did not mention CCCS - where i do mention CCCS is in my signature - it goes on every post i make, whether it's about gardening or just a joke! This information is available on the CCCS website and i would assume not libellous!

Especially an overcharged and generally badly provided service... (you notice I didn't say the overcharged part was "generally" - I think that's pretty permanent across the board... feel free to provide evidence to the contrary...)
DM Companies charge about 15%, DM Charities earns about 15% - pretty standard alright! You're objecting to the way they pay... the consumer pays a DM Company, the banks pay their own DM Charity

Point of clarity - on here we use DMP for Debt Management Plan - something we DEFINITELY like, support and advise people about on a daily basis. We don't generally call people who profit from peoples ignorance on the ability to not only manage them themselves or using a free service DMPs - small point possibly
Right, i dont happen to like DMPs but i can see that they have their uses. If you have large debts and cant really afford your repayments and can't handle the pressure of the phonecalls and you need a break from it all, then sure why not, a DMP is for you! It'll give you the breathing space you might need to reflect on your current financial situation... the phonecalls and letters might stop. Yes you can manage it yourself but the banks will walk all over you and take a gamble that you don't know your rights. You might be able to knock them back a few times send a few threatening letters of your own but a bank could easily tie you up in knots if you're not as well informed as your average MSE poster!

So go to a company who won't be so easily bullied- but which company!?
There are so many!
Well obviously you'll only go to a debt Charity (if you know about it) because there are no fees (kind of)... they'll advise you if a Debt Man is your best solution and set it up for you and earn money (from the banks, not you!) So you're in a Debt Management Plan for 10 years, 12 years, 8 years, whatever! You'll pay back your debt in full plus whatever interest your company (or you) couldn't get frozen.
Would an IVA not have been better? No! because you "definitely like" IVAs because we've heard bad news about them - dont listen to the money makers, they're all just crooks and fraudsters. WE "definitely like" DMPs so they're the way to go :rolleyes:

Making money out of people struggling to repay their debts seems moral to you? fair enough - we'll have to disagree on that point then
If you phrase it like that, i can see why it's easy to say it's immoral, but how about you phrase it like this: i asked a company to do a job for me, and then i paid them!

Banks make money out of people in debt - are they all immoral?
CCCS makes money out of people in debt - why are they not immoral?
http://www.charity-commission.gov.uk/ShowCharity/RegisterOfCharities/CharityWithPartB.aspx?RegisteredCharityNumber=1016630&SubsidiaryNumber=0
Shops make money
Governments make money (bad example probably)
You make money! Are you immoral?
Is money itself evil? I dont understand! (yes it's reductio ad absurdum but so what?)

***you have a difference of opinion with someone, dont be so arrogant as to assume you're definitely right! Nick believes his company deserves to be paid for a service they provide - in this instance badly but that's beside the point - do you believe they should close their shutters and send all their staff to the unemployment queues?***