London rents to be capped at £1250

Andy_L

julieq wrote: »

Let's ask you a direct question: do you believe the public sector is as efficient as the private sector organisationally?

If not, then it's perfectly reasonable to ask for improvements. Which is all I'm doing.

I don't believe it is but why?

Undoubtedly some of it due to incompetant/lazy staff with managers who won't use the "shape up or ship out" appraisal systems avaliable to them (although I'd suggest that a visit to the consumer vent boards would show that as hardly unique to the Public Sector;)) but how much compared to:

Large organisations being, generally, less effecient than small ones.
Political "overheads" eg recording & sending data back to central government, responding to changing political impertives every time there's a story in the press
Having to provide certain services - if the private sector can't make a service profitable they stop doing it, whilst if it can be profitable its often sold off (eg TNT et al under-cutting Royal Mail on business post whilst leaving the loss-making universal service obligation to RM)

Gorgeous_George

There is almost no reason for an MP to visit London more than once or twice per year.

The new rules will ensure that they don't.

Or

One MP will rent from another MP. The trough will still have many snouts.

GG

ruggedtoast

julieq wrote: »

Moved back to silly sarcasm then have we Ruggedtoast? Hopefully your mates will turn up and rescue you from the trouble of actually having to engage with any of the issues you bring up.

Incidentally I can play on MSE because I'm not at work today, you may have noticed I've posted more than usual.

I most certainly haven't contradicted myself. Slightly loose language on one aspect particular issue, arguably, but the thrust of the argument which is that in the private sector incompetence can and will get you sacked eventually, and that that level of accountability should also be present in the public sector.

Because otherwise our money is being wasted.

Are you for or against our money being wasted? Why not answer?

Because I don't accept your arbitrary opinion that the public sector is a waste of money staffed by incompetents who wouldn't last a week in the private sector.

How many people are incompetent and need to be sacked, in your opinion?

Who are these people? What have they done to raise your ire JulieQ.

I think the time has come for YOU to answer. Who has shaken your tree?

mewbie_2

julieq wrote: »

You're not answering the question because you can't answer the question, lol.

Hello Julie. Did you get my PM? I wondered because you haven't replied, and it's been nearly a week. So I thought I'd try on this thread as you are about. Hope things are well with you, and that the problem you mentioned in your last email has cleared up. I'm ready to give it another shot if you are up for it.

Cheers, Boris.

CLAPTON

kabayiri wrote: »

It's a tough call to make as to when to tighten the reins.

I understand the points you make. My only argument on timing is that as a society we are well overdue for a period of 'cold turkey'. This would help us re-evaluate our priorities on a personal and career level. At some point in the future, for many of us, 'living within our means' may have a much smaller 'means' element to it.

The process of 'MP cold turkey' may prove to be a good thing, you never know.

If cold turkey meant that everyone gave up a holiday or two, went without that new flat screen TV, cooked from scratch etc then that would be fine.
But cold turkey would probably mean a massive rise in unemployment, ten of thousands of companies going out of business etc. large increase in crime etc.... in my view not really a price worth paying if there are viable alternatives.... and the current level of debt seems worth it.

julieq

ruggedtoast wrote: »

Because I don't accept your arbitrary opinion that the public sector is a waste of money staffed by incompetents who wouldn't last a week in the private sector.

How many people are incompetent and need to be sacked, in your opinion?

Who are these people? What have they done to raise your ire JulieQ.

I think the time has come for YOU to answer. Who has shaken your tree?

Anyone who deals with local government, or goes to hospital, or even sends their children to a state school is well aware of the inefficiencies and archaic practices of the public sector.

But you really don't have to take my word for it. Have a look at

http://www.publicservice.co.uk/news_story.asp?id=10492

for example, where the stark statistics are laid out. To quote just one part of this piece:

"The cebr cited a little noticed revision "slipped out" earlier this month by the Office for National Statistics which revealed that the public sector's productivity performance had been even worse than earlier admitted, with a decline of 3.4 per cent from 1997 to 2007. At the same time, productivity in the private sector rose by 27.9 per cent."

I have no desire to have people removed from their jobs where they do them effectively. But if you are seriously suggesting that the public sector has no room for increases in efficiency which would save amounts in comparison to which the MP expenses are a tiny drop in the ocean, you're at odds with every single serious commentator on this issue.

The difficulty is the level of unionisation in the public sector and the extreme politicial sensitivity of doing anything that might apparently affect "service delivery", particularly in the NHS. But this waste is not benign, it is wasting OUR money, and there really should be room for improvement.

In a private business, staff are held accountable to shareholders or whoever owns the business. All I'm saying is that the public sector should be too. I have no idea why you find this such a strange and controversial concept. Do you perhaps work in the public sector?

julieq

mewbie wrote: »

Hello Julie. Did you get my PM? I wondered because you haven't replied, and it's been nearly a week. So I thought I'd try on this thread as you are about. Hope things are well with you, and that the problem you mentioned in your last email has cleared up. I'm ready to give it another shot if you are up for it.

Cheers, Boris.

The obvious difficulty is finding a length of rubber hose and a pot of swarfega in the village shop, but if you're prepared to substitute pig intestines and some good old Sussex mud, I think we can accommodate you. I've aired the chicken hutch and we'll sort you out for a lick of creosote when you arrive, so as not to scare Reg too much.

carolt

julieq wrote: »

Anyone who deals with local government, or goes to hospital, or even sends their children to a state school is well aware of the inefficiencies and archaic practices of the public sector.

But you really don't have to take my word for it. Have a look at

http://www.publicservice.co.uk/news_story.asp?id=10492

for example, where the stark statistics are laid out. To quote just one part of this piece:

"The cebr cited a little noticed revision "slipped out" earlier this month by the Office for National Statistics which revealed that the public sector's productivity performance had been even worse than earlier admitted, with a decline of 3.4 per cent from 1997 to 2007. At the same time, productivity in the private sector rose by 27.9 per cent."

I have no desire to have people removed from their jobs where they do them effectively. But if you are seriously suggesting that the public sector has no room for increases in efficiency which would save amounts in comparison to which the MP expenses are a tiny drop in the ocean, you're at odds with every single serious commentator on this issue.

The difficulty is the level of unionisation in the public sector and the extreme politicial sensitivity of doing anything that might apparently affect "service delivery", particularly in the NHS. But this waste is not benign, it is wasting OUR money, and there really should be room for improvement.

In a private business, staff are held accountable to shareholders or whoever owns the business. All I'm saying is that the public sector should be too. I have no idea why you find this such a strange and controversial concept. Do you perhaps work in the public sector?

You need to send your kids to a better state school, julie. My kids' school is far from flush with money, the staff all work hard, on relatively low wages, and earn every penny of it.

Likewise, I'm immensely proud of the NHS - it's not perfect, but nothing staffed by human beings can be. It's far, far superior to private alternatives.

Not sure where you get the idea that everyone in the public sector is in a union, or that no-one can be sacked. You appear to be hovering around 1977, or something. Certainly not the case now.

julieq

Carol, no-one is saying there's nothing good in the public sector. What I am saying though is every independent survey and study has shown productivity is poorer than the private sector, and by many measures has declined when private sector productivity has increased. Have a look at the link I posted.

In which case it can be improved. That's simple and indisputable fact.

And because it's my money paying for it I would quite like it to be improved. Because that would mean that we would get more for our money, without having to fire anyone working in the public sector.

Education is an interesting one. There are a lot of failing schools, but you don't see a lot of teachers being held to account or being censured, and the level of squealing around even mild appraisals or inspections by standards bodies does demonstrate what the attitudes are. Everyone who has been near a school (and I worked in one for a period) knows that there are good dedicated teachers, and there are poor teachers, but the poor teachers stay doing what they're doing largely.

I deal with local authorities, again you meet good people and you meet a hell of a lot of bureaucratic coasters.

I'm proud of the NHS. It doesn't mean it can't be improved. Most of the working practices are archaic to the point of hysteria, for example having to have a porter to move someone who can walk perfectly well from place to place, and not allowing someone else to do the job for the purpose of expediency.

ruggedtoast

To be honest Julie - when you go through life finding everyone else is the problem you eventually have to start looking at yourself.

Know what I mean? (Ofsted inspections by the way).