Do i own the phone?

M4RKM

billbennett wrote: »

I got out of a 3 contract after 4 months last year, and got to keep the phone.

and 3 might have different policies.

this is o2, so o2 policies apply.

DarkConvict

Im not sure where you stand on this, but for high value phones it is common practice to return the phone, obviously if you paid for it then it would only be fair that they refund you the £96. If they are cancelling then there must be a good reason, if it is for loss of signal i would request your £96 for the return of the phone, with no signal you might aswell return it. If not, i.e. they broke contract such as price changes then its 50/50.

Contracts can be cancelled when the signal has been lost and the operator is unable to restore it, as they would be in breach of failing to provide the service you paid for. You would need to look at your contract and find out at which point you are said to be the owner not the renter of the phone. Since you are in part, per month paying towards the phones actual cost via line rental costs, the phone it could almost be seen as a hired lease, in which case you don't own it until the contract is finished.

If you are unable to find any wording in your contract over this matter, then have a word with consumer direct (trading standards)

gjchester

The phone belongs to you as soon as you recieve it, and the related airtime contract comes into operation. The contract to supply the phone and the contract for airtime are two different entities. The only time they tend to be linked is the time of the contract coming into force, the phone only becomes yours after the airtime contract starts rather than delivery date if thats earlier than the contract start date.

It's always been that way as a faulty phone is not considered a reason to teminate the contract, they are legally not connected. Similarly a loss of airtime does not give you the right to demand any payment back for the phone (I'm thinking the Iphone ot the Palm Pre here where you don't get the handset free on all tarrifs)

That said if they are offering to NOT enforce the termination fee's they are asking for the phone back in lieu of the terminaition payment. Considering the OP is on a £29 contract with 17 months to go thats probably going to be a termination fee of almost £500, it may be better to return the phone.

JamieM

As I read it O2 have failed to keep up their side of the contract by providing you with a fully working mobile phone account. So they have broken the contract not you. Morally they may be entitled to the phone back but then you should get back the money you have put into the phone too. Having said that big companies seem to prefer contract obligations to moral reasoning so why should you. I would put it to them that as a further gesture of goodwill they let you keep the phone.

parallax_20

JamieM wrote: »

As I read it O2 have failed to keep up their side of the contract by providing you with a fully working mobile phone account. So they have broken the contract not you. Morally they may be entitled to the phone back but then you should get back the money you have put into the phone too. Having said that big companies seem to prefer contract obligations to moral reasoning so why should you. I would put it to them that as a further gesture of goodwill they let you keep the phone.

JamieM : Thats being a bit cheeky to ask to keep a £400+ phone as a good will gesture when they have already let you out of a 24 month contract for free.

nsabournemouth : Reading the other thread to the reason for termination, you have had service from them and I take it its generally fine, with network cross over in certain areas. Contractually because you receive a signal from their network they have provided a service and therefore are not obligated to let you out for free. So for them to let you go after 7 months of service, you have been very lucky.

Try a similar thing with 3 and you'll get nowhere and will be forced to pay the remaining contract term (unless in certain exceptional circumstances).

My advice is to make a clean break and return the phone, otherwise they will pursue you for the cost of the handset which will probably be taken from your direct debit. If they fail to take the monies because you cancelled the DD, then you will have a credit mark against you for non-payment and debt collectors will be called in. The £96 you paid is your contribution towards the cost of the handset over the 24 months minimum contract. Cancelling it early, you should be entitled to claim that money back.

Good luck.

Buzby

JamieM wrote: »

As I read it O2 have failed to keep up their side of the contract by providing you with a fully working mobile phone account.

Er - have you actually READ a contract? Aparrently not - it has nothing to do with 'mobile phones' but the SIM they provide and the service it makes available to you. What IS a 'fully working mobile phone account' anyway? Working phone? Sure, SOGA applies, and is nothing to do with your contract. As for a phone account, I'm sure the account is working nicely. and they expect payments on the due date every month.

nsabournemouth

Spoke to o2 and it turns out that i do own the phone just not the Sim card as i thought. They have said they wamted the phone back as it costs a bit of money and they don't see why i should have it....tough tits o2.

Even in t&c it states that ownership and title and risk for the handset are turned over to me whan it is in my grubby little mits.

I even asked the operations manager 'You want me to send in MY handset so you will revoke this?' Her reply 'Yes we want your phone'

parallax_20

Sorry to disappoint you, but never trust the words of a customer rep. Always get it in writing and even then its not always correct.

O2 Standard Business T&C's

3. Equipment

3.1 Title in the Equipment shall not pass to the Customer except that title in Equipment which is not a Device (for example hardware accessories) shall pass to the Customer upon payment in full for such Equipment.

3.7 Following any upgrade or replacement of Equipment or disconnection of Equipment from the Wireless Services, O2 shall reserve the right to request the safe return of any such Equipment in which O2 retains title pursuant to clause 3.1 from the Customer to O2 at the Customer’s expense.

3.9 O2 reserves the right to charge the Customer the Replacement List Price or repair charges as set out from time to time in the O2 Price List for any Equipment that is not returned to O2 in accordance with the provisions of clause 3.7 or where the Customer fails to fulfil its obligations under clause 3.8.

Pay Monthly Consumer & Business T&C's

Equipment Agreement

2.2 Unless we have specifically agreed to sell you Equipment on an equipment only basis, we are supplying Equipment to you because you have agreed to
enter into a contract for the supply of the Services for a Minimum Period and at a tariff applicable to that Minimum Period. In consideration for you
agreeing to purchase the Services, we shall normally supply the Equipment to you for no charge (subject to paragraph 2.3). Note that if you cancel your
Services Agreement under paragraph 11 this Agreement will also be cancelled.

2.4 The Equipment that we deliver to you or which is collected by you, becomes your responsibility once it is collected or received by you at which time
ownership will pass to you, subject to paragraph 2.5.

Based on the above clauses set out in their T&C's, O2 remains the title owners of the equipment until its fully paid for. I can see how you may have interpreted clause 2.4 as being yours. This clause basically says whilst you have a service contract, you own the phone and are responsible for its use and condition. But since your service contract is terminated before the minimum period to which the equipment is tied to, the equipment agreement is also none and void, and so the ownership returns to O2.

At the end of the day, its up to you if you decided to keep the handset or not, at the risk of being pursued for the full cost of the handset by debt collectors and being black listed for future credit for failure to pay.

Good luck.

gjchester

nsabournemouth wrote: »

Spoke to o2 and it turns out that i do own the phone just not the Sim card as i thought. They have said they wamted the phone back as it costs a bit of money and they don't see why i should have it....tough tits o2.

Even in t&c it states that ownership and title and risk for the handset are turned over to me whan it is in my grubby little mits.

I even asked the operations manager 'You want me to send in MY handset so you will revoke this?' Her reply 'Yes we want your phone'

Don't be suprised if they then say "Fine you wish to break the contract that will be £500 early termination fee please." O2 are supplying a service and trying to resolve the issue you are having, you may have a case for a goodwill refund for the days / months you have issues but only that, you don't have a case for a contract break as they say they do not guarantee the service will work 100% of the time and they are trying to resolve the issue.

Take it as a win, give them the phone back and avoid paying the termination fee. Make too much fuss and the goodwill gesture of breaking the contract they are offering you may be removed leaving you with a large fee.

gjchester

parallax_20 wrote: »

Based on the above clauses set out in their T&C's, O2 remains the title owners of the equipment until its fully paid for. I can see how you may have interpreted clause 2.4 as being yours. This clause basically says whilst you have a service contract, you own the phone and are responsible for its use and condition. But since your service contract is terminated before the minimum period to which the equipment is tied to, the equipment agreement is also none and void, and so the ownership returns to O2.

I read that as the hardware becomes yours as soon as you start the airtime contract. The airtime contract and the phone are two seperate deals not related other than at the starting date. The phone being free is dependant on you starting the airtime agreement thats all. The airtime agreement has terms for early disconnection but these don't cover the handset, it's yours from the day you start the airtime contract.