Tenancy Renewal

N79

DVardysShadow wrote: »

Har har. LA have shot themselves in the foot. As the tenancy is now periodic, they have to give 2 months notice starting from 22 April [or 23?] - I think that the Section 21 notice has no effect now - can someone confirm.

No - that alone does not invalidate the S21 - they remain valid indefinately unless a LL takes action to invalidate them (and offering a new tenancy may but only may be sufficient). However, the lack of deposit protection at the time of issue defiantely does if, as I suspect, this S21 was issued before the deposit was protected. Your letter is better than mine though!

sugarstar

Thanks for your suggestions - I have kind of combined the two replies, how does this sound:

Dear LA

Thank you for your email of XXX, a copy of which is enclosed for your reference.
I was surprised to receive this email as since <expiry of fixed AST term>, our tenancy has been running on statutory periodic terms, which require 2 months notice from yourselves or 1 month from us to terminate. As these terms are enshrined in statute law, there has been no need for either party to renew the lease. Your notice to quit on May 13 is of course outwith your rights under the Statutory Periodic Tenancy now in place and is therefore rejected and no checkout appointment is required.
I have also never served you with notice to end my statutory periodic tenancy.
If my Landlord wishes to serve notice to leave, the earliest this would now expire is 23rd June 2010. If this is the case I trust you will forward this to me as soon as possible.
Yours sincerely


I'll send it special delivery tomorrow, but should I send it as an email as well ?

Edited to add - I think the S21 may have been invalid, but at this stage they haven't mentioned it at all, so I haven't either

clutton_2

what a group of incompetent eejits....

DVardysShadow

N79 wrote: »

No - that alone does not invalidate the S21 - they remain valid indefinately unless a LL takes action to invalidate them (and offering a new tenancy may but only may be sufficient). However, the lack of deposit protection at the time of issue defiantely does if, as I suspect, this S21 was issued before the deposit was protected. Your letter is better than mine though!

OK, what happens with the S21 now? If it was issued undated, does it actually require LL's notice to activate it? If the tenancy has gone periodic but it was dated what would its status be?

lizzielondon

and i thought i'd met some dumb LAs....

sugarstar

Can I just check, if the rental period began on 23rd of the month (originally April 23rd last year), does that mean notice ends on the 22nd?

sugarstar

Ok I'm off to bed now, but have tweaked the letter a little more I'll be checking back tomorrow before I post it, so if anyone is around and has any more suggestions they would be gratefully received - letter writing isn't my strong point!

Dear Letting Agent,

Thank you for your email of April 13, a copy of which is enclosed for your reference.
We were surprised to receive this email as since October 23 our tenancy has been running on statutory periodic terms, which require 2 months notice from yourselves or 1 month from us to terminate. As these terms are enshrined in statute law, there has been no need for either party to renew the lease. We have never served you with notice to end our statutory periodic tenancy.

I am therefore unable to explain why you have booked a checkout inventory on May 13 and in order to help you avoid any inconvenience on your part I am writing to let you know that your representative should not attend the property on this date. Your email giving us notice to end the statutory periodic tenancy on May 13 is of course outwith your rights under the statutory periodic tenancy now in place and is therefore rejected. I should also point out at this point that the Section 21 notice served to us at the beginning of our tenancy is invalid, as it was served prior to our deposit being protected in the DPS.

If our Landlord wishes to serve notice to leave, the earliest this would now expire is June 22. If this is the case I trust you will forward this to me as soon as possible.
Yours Sincerely

XYZ

Thanks again for all your advice!

franklee

As this agent is clearly bonkers you may wish to communicate directly with the landlord in future should the agent not back down after getting your proposed letter. To that end I'd suggest you write to the agent asking for the landlord's address.

Extract from Landlord and Tenant Act 1985.

1 Disclosure of landlord’s identity

(1)If the tenant of premises occupied as a dwelling makes a written request for the landlord’s name and address to—

(a)any person who demands, or the last person who received, rent payable under the tenancy, or

(b)any other person for the time being acting as agent for the landlord, in relation to the tenancy,

that person shall supply the tenant with a written statement of the landlord’s name and address within the period of 21 days beginning with the day on which he receives the request.

(2)A person who, without reasonable excuse, fails to comply with subsection (1) commits a summary offence and is liable on conviction to a fine not exceeding level 4 on the standard scale.

Address is defined by the 1985 Act as a person’s place of abode or place of business or, in the case of a company, it's registered office. Note this is different legislation to that covering address for service of notices where an agent's address can be used and which you already have.

Fire_Fox

amiamad1 wrote: »

Ok I'm off to bed now, but have tweaked the letter a little more I'll be checking back tomorrow before I post it, so if anyone is around and has any more suggestions they would be gratefully received - letter writing isn't my strong point!

Dear Letting Agent,

Thank you for your email of April 13, a copy of which is enclosed for your reference.
We were surprised to receive this email as since October 23 our tenancy has been running on statutory periodic terms, which require 2 months notice from yourselves or 1 month from us to terminate. As these terms are enshrined in statute law, there has been no need for either party to renew the lease. We have never served you with notice to end our statutory periodic tenancy.

I am therefore unable to explain why you have booked a checkout inventory on May 13 and in order to help you avoid any inconvenience on your part I am writing to let you know that your representative should not attend the property on this date. Your email giving us notice to end the statutory periodic tenancy on May 13 is of course outwith your rights under the statutory periodic tenancy now in place and is therefore rejected.

[STRIKE]I should also point out at this point that the Section 21 notice served to us at the beginning of our tenancy is invalid, as it was served prior to our deposit being protected in the DPS.[/STRIKE]

If our Landlord wishes to serve notice to leave, the earliest this would now expire is June 22. If this is the case I trust you will forward this to me as soon as possible.
Yours Sincerely

XYZ

Thanks again for all your advice!

It's a great letter, although I would leave out the part about the earlier 21 as I think it dilutes the strength of the previous para. It would be highly amusing to waste their time writing back to you about the S21 only for you to play your trump card, and it would be even more amusing if you could keep them hanging until after the 22nd in which case they will have missed yet another window of opportunity. :rotfl:

BTW harassment and illegal eviction are criminal offences (Protection from Eviction Act 1977), as is fraud by false representation (Fraud Act 2006).

lizzielondon

franklee wrote: »

As this agent is clearly bonkers you may wish to communicate directly with the landlord in future should the agent not back down after getting your proposed letter. To that end I'd suggest you write to the agent asking for the landlord's address.

Extract from Landlord and Tenant Act 1985.

1 Disclosure of landlord’s identity

(1)If the tenant of premises occupied as a dwelling makes a written request for the landlord’s name and address to—

(a)any person who demands, or the last person who received, rent payable under the tenancy, or

(b)any other person for the time being acting as agent for the landlord, in relation to the tenancy,

that person shall supply the tenant with a written statement of the landlord’s name and address within the period of 21 days beginning with the day on which he receives the request.

(2)A person who, without reasonable excuse, fails to comply with subsection (1) commits a summary offence and is liable on conviction to a fine not exceeding level 4 on the standard scale.

Address is defined by the 1985 Act as a person’s place of abode or place of business or, in the case of a company, it's registered office. Note this is different legislation to that covering address for service of notices where an agent's address can be used and which you already have.

as the agent is clearly bonkers might they not just ignore this?