Tenancy Renewal

sugarstar

UPDATE BELOW: see most recent post please! Have added to this thread to keep it with old background info!


Hi,

I am looking for some advice regarding our tenancy renewal. Our 6 month (fixed term) tenancy ended on 22nd Oct, and we paid rent on this day for the next month, expecting it to go onto a periodic tenancy as our previous one (with a different agency) did. As I understood it - we are already technically on (as of last week) a periodic tenancy - I think.

We have just recieved a phone call from the agents saying that they assume were staying because of the months rent paid (on 22/10 for this month), however they are also saying that they "don't offer" a periodic tenancy, and if we wish to stay (we do - I just don't want to sign for another 6 months) we must make an appointment, sign a new 6 month agreement and pay £30 per tenant fee.
Can they say this? We were served with a S21 notice when we moved in - does this make any difference to the starting of a periodic tenancy.

Thanks in advance for your help!

Jowo_2

You do have a periodic tenancy, as you've correctly assumed - this happens automatically the moment a fixed tenancy expires and no further contract is signed.

The OFT regard renewal fees as unfair but I'm not sure that it's illegal, just a guideline. Google to find the tenancy renewal fees versus Foxton case.

Some landlords prefer fixed term contracts, others just use the initial term to suss out if they are happy with the tenants and then just let it roll on until either party gives the correct notice.

No-one can force you to sign a new contract but any landlord, so long as they serve the correct notice, can ask a tenant to leave without having to give a reason.

The S21 doesn't have a direct impact on anything, other than you've already been served 2 months notice, therefore the landlord can apply to the court for a possession notice much swifter if he wishes to evict you and you do not wish to leave.

moromir

Did the letting agent at any time write to you and ask if you intended to stay on? If not then thats a bit shoddy of them!

If the Landlord doesn't want the tenancy to continue on a SPT (statutory periodic tenancy, month-to-month) they must apply to the court for a possession order using a copy of the section 21 notice you were issued with. In the meantime I understand that you can continue paying the rent as you have been until such time that the Landlord obtains the above order.

But in essence - if the Landlord is only prepared to continue on a fixed term tenancy then your options are to either a) go in and sign up for a new tenancy and pay the administration costs of doing so, b) ignore them and keep paying the rent and hope nothing comes of it, c) ignore them and keep paying the rent, the Landlord obtains a court order and you have to find a new place (eventually, since this takes some time)

G_M

Call their bluff - ignore them.
Or be polite and ring to tell them you are happy as things are on a periodic tenancy.

The LL clearly wants you to stay (or wouldn't be offering you a new fixed term contract). Is he really going to spend money evicting you, then spend more money finding a new tenant, all the while losing money as there will be a 'void' period with no tenant paying rent? No! Much too expensive.

If the agent tries to insist, might be worth speaking direct to the LL if you can - does he even know you are being charged to stay? threatened with eviction? As a LL if my agent put my LL/tenant relationship in jeopardy like this I'd be furious!

sugarstar

moromir wrote: »

options are to either a) go in and sign up for a new tenancy and pay the administration costs of doing so, b) ignore them and keep paying the rent and hope nothing comes of it, c) ignore them and keep paying the rent, the Landlord obtains a court order and you have to find a new place (eventually, since this takes some time)

I thought this would be the case - not ideal really.

They sent a text asking us to call their premium rate no. in august, but we didn't thinking that they would contact us before the end of the original agreement to find out what we were planning to do.

I doubt they would want a void - the ll (an irish company who renovated the building a few years ago) already has at least 4 flats in this building empty. But at the same time we don't want them to just give us notice to leave if we don't sign the new fixed term - we want to stay for the time being. We don't have direct contact to the ll, their contact address is through the agents, so unfortunately thats not an option.

I'm going to phone them, and explain that we want to stay, but also have a periodic tenancy (my bf spoke to them last time), make them aware that we know were already on one and see what they say.

Thanks

clutton_2

""The OFT regard renewal fees as unfair""

not so - the OFT regard excessive renewal fees which are hidden away deep inside the small print as unfair.

sugarstar

I just called them myself, and apparently the ll has requested the fixed term contract for the security of knowing we will still be there.

When i said that I wasn't happy with this, she suggested that they could add a 2 month break clause into the agreement - so that we can leave during the 6 months as long as we give 2 months notice? There doesn't seem much point in this to me! I think they're just after their fee (which if i actually wanted another fixed term contract I wouldn't object to paying it quite as much).

sugarstar

Update - Sorry this is long.

I have had occasional emails from the letting agency asking us to contact RE:Renewal since october, all have been ignored, as they didn't get back to us about the break clause.

Shortly before christmas they wrote to us asking us to get in contact, so we phoned, but they said they were busy and they would be in touch after christmas. The occasional emails asking me to phone their premium rate no. continued, so we continued to wait for a phone call from them as promised in our last call.

On the 20th March the letting agents finally phoned. By this stage we had become unable to sign, as we will need to move out in the summer anyway (we had planned to give notice to leave on June 22nd , so were now totally unwilling to sign - at christmas, had they been in touch we would have).

They keep stating our tenancy has expired I explained, that we were already on a Statutory Periodic Tenancy, which the LA didn't seem to understand and the lady said we have no contract at the moment because it's expired and as letting agents they dont offer that type of tenancy.
I said we would consider signing a renewal only after contact from the Landlord explaining why this was necessary. (Although if I am honest it was no longer an option at this point).

Since this phone call I have had the following email:

27th March:
Dear Miss XYZ,

Please be advised that the property is now managed by ourselves and we do not operate on a rolling contract.
Therefore, you must sign with us we are the chosen agent.
If you do not wish to sign then we will have to give two month notice.
The renewal fee of £30 per tenants would be normally applicable but because it is your first renewal with us we can reduce the renewal by 50% for you.
In your 6 month tenancy agreement we can include a two month break clause.

Kind Regards
The Letting Agent

Then a follow up on the 3rd asking for our decision.

I did not reply to these emails at all.

Today I recieved the following email (I had been expecting them to write to us if I am honest, and it is possible that there is a letter in the post but as yet, they haven't written to us with this information):

Dear Miss XYZ

You received an email from 27/03 explaining the renewal process.
So far you have not secured your renewal and we assume that you plan to vacate as your tenancy has now expired.
I would like to inform you that your landlord would like to serve you notice.
You will be expected to vacate on 13/05.
Your check out appointment has been booked for 11am on 13/05 at the property.
Please ensure that you are able to attend.

Kind Regards
The Letting Agent.

We were served with a S21 when we signed the original contracts.

Ideally we would stay until June, but it's no massive problem to move earlier (we will be moving back in with parents temporarily until my job is confirmed when I graduate, when we will relocate to another area).

My main question to you at this stage is as our rent period runs from 23rd of the month -22nd and Rent is paid on the 23rd, can they ask us to leave on the 13th?
I would be grateful for any advice anyone can offer about drafting a reply. Should I reply by email

N79

What a bunch of jokers.

Tell them that you have no intention to leave the property and point out that you have not served notice on them. If they serve notice tomorrow the earliest it could expire is the 22 June (the date you wish to leave anyway).

You could remind them that if they evict you on the 13 May or take any steps to restrict your access to the property then that would be illegal eviction.

The S21 that they served you when you signed the tenancy agreement is almost certainly invalid because I doubt that they managed to protect your deposit in the few seconds between you signing and them issuing the notice.

Call their bluff - point out that the current S21 is invalid and that if the LL wishes to serve new notice to go ahead.

All this for a GBP30 fee - it really is stupidity.

You should reply in writing by recorded delivery. Something along the lines of:

Thank you for your email of XXX, a copy of which is enclosed for your reference.

I was surprised to receive this email as I have never served you with notice to end my statutory periodic tenancy and have no wish to vacate XXXX property. On the contary I wish to remain in occupation on my statutory periodic tenancy. I am therefore unable to explain why you have booked a checkout inventory and in order to help you avoid any inconvenience on your part I am writing to let you know that there is clearly no need for such checkout meeting and therefore your representive should not attend the property on XXXX.

If my LL wishes to serve me notice then that is a matter for them. At this time I have not received any notice to quit from my LL so I trust you will forwad this as soon as possible.

I look forward to a quick resolution of your misunderstanding.

Yours.......

DVardysShadow

Har har. LA have shot themselves in the foot. As the tenancy is now periodic, they have to give 2 months notice starting from 22 April [or 23?] - I think that the Section 21 notice has no effect now - can someone confirm.

Dear LA

Since <expiry of fixed AST term>, our tenancy has been running on statutory periodic terms, which require 2 months notice from yourselves or 1 month from us to terminate. As these terms are enshrined in statute law, there has been no need for either party to renew the lease. Your notice to quit on May 13 is of course outwith your rights under the Statutory Periodic Tenancy now in place and is therefore rejected and no checkout appointment is required.

Yours sincerely

Tenants

sugarstar

Glad it's not just me that thinks they're nuts - I told the lady on the phone that we wanted to stay indefinitely (on the phone call of 20th March - I thought it might get them off my back) so it definitely is their 6 monthly renewal fee they're after.

The deposit wasn't protected until about a month later, our letter from the DPS is dated 21st May 09 - I had wondered if this made the S21 invalid.

(Doubt it makes a difference, but this was because originally the landlord was going to manage the property, but the letting agents took over after the firm seem to have withdrawn all UK stuff and only seem to operate in Ireland now.)