Have i been shaking out of ITL?

tradetime

Well, imho there should certainly be some discussion along those lines. I do not do much business with these brokers so I have not yet gotten into a debate about an order discrepency with them.
As I see it, with no FoK order option you could only have placed one of two types of order.
1) a Stop-Loss order
2) a Stop-Limit order

Both orders have essentially two components, a trigger (the stop price) and an order attached to that. In the case of a stop loss the order attached is a market order to sell, ie an order to sell to the market at whatever price is at the bid. For a share that seems to have an average 3 month volume of over 700,000 shares per day it seems odd that there would be no bid at all
The stop-limit has the same trigger, but a limit price to sell, so it states if they cannot get X price or better, then they should not sell, but even if they could not achieve that at the time the share is above 110 now so it should have completed.

Both orders should have remained live in the market until completed or expired (Limit orders usually have an expiry) If they have some other way of doing business then they are more inept than even I had allowed for.
It will cost you as you say £10 to sell those 70 shares, that's over 14p per share, so unless the highest bid after the partial fill was more than 14p below the filled price, they did you no favours.

adamt

thank you but before i call them, is there anything i should state in order for them to take action/sell the shares at no charge?

Is there any legal clause that they must have sold the full quantity?

Tradetime: it was a 'Stop loss' order at 107.
So surely they were committed to sell all the shares in one trade?

adamt

bump ^^ ..

tradetime

adamt wrote: »

thank you but before i call them, is there anything i should state in order for them to take action/sell the shares at no charge?

Is there any legal clause that they must have sold the full quantity?

Tradetime: it was a 'Stop loss' order at 107.
So surely they were committed to sell all the shares?

As I said, I don't do a lot of trading with these types of backwards brokers, and I don't do much on the LSE, but I would be surprised if the LSE has any rules that make it more difficult to do business, since London is number one or two with New York as the financial capital of the world.

As I said above, a Stop-Loss order @ 107 is an order to sell your position at market, to the highest bidder once the stop price has been triggered, which is why they go to lengths to warn you it may execute some distance away from the price. I find it hard to believe there was no bid at that time even it does trade a little thin, seems to me, if you try approaching them politely, they should, assuming you do not want to hold the stock, just close it for free, as currently I think somehow they have made a mistake, unfortunately I have no Time and Sales access to the LSE so I can't see what orders were going through at that time.

As regards legality, they are regulated by the FSA, but this is a small matter and should be settled in house, you could try posing your question on their forums, maybe someone has experience of similar.

purch

Tradetime: it was a 'Stop loss' order at 107.
So surely they were committed to sell all the shares in one trade?

No, just committed to Sell all your position at the next best available price.

No one can guarantee to fill an order in one trade unless they have a price in the amount, especially not on AIM.

adamt

tradetime wrote: »

As I said, I don't do a lot of trading with these types of backwards brokers, and I don't do much on the LSE, but I would be surprised if the LSE has any rules that make it more difficult to do business, since London is number one or two with New York as the financial capital of the world.

As I said above, a Stop-Loss order @ 107 is an order to sell your position at market, to the highest bidder once the stop price has been triggered, which is why they go to lengths to warn you it may execute some distance away from the price. I find it hard to believe there was no bid at that time even it does trade a little thin, seems to me, if you try approaching them politely, they should, assuming you do not want to hold the stock, just close it for free, as currently I think somehow they have made a mistake, unfortunately I have no Time and Sales access to the LSE so I can't see what orders were going through at that time.

As regards legality, they are regulated by the FSA, but this is a small matter and should be settled in house, you could try posing your question on their forums, maybe someone has experience of similar.

Great, i just called them and asked politely , and the guy sold the 70 shares with no £10 commission!
He said it was a system error and not mine

Thanks all for explaining everything.

But i do want to re-invest into ITL as it was clearly a tree shake or stops getting hit (like mine) with no serious reasons to sell.

Any thoughts on buying back into ITL?
I may wait till tomorrow or Thursday to see how the SP moves, but this time will plan my SL more suitably

tradetime

adamt wrote: »

Great, i just called them and asked politely , and the guy sold the 70 shares with no £10 commission!

Thanks alot for explaining everything.

But i do want to re-invest into ITL as it was clearly a tree shake or stops getting hit (like mine) with no serious reasons to sell.

Any thoughts on buying back into ITL?
I may wait till tomorrow or Thursday to see how the SP moves, but this time will plan my SL more suitably

Glad to here they sorted it out for you, usually in a situation like this, as long as you don't get their back up early on they can be accommodative.
Have no ideas on that stock, company stocks aren't really my thing.

turbobob

This share looks to be on SETSmm which is explained a bit more in the link. SETS is the electronic system that shares are traded with on the London Stock Exchange. The market makers are each able to set their bid and ask prices, but other participants can come in and cut them out effectively, unlike a share which is on SEAQ (generally small companies) where the market makers have more control, as explained in this link. I think this probably makes the "tree shake" explaination less likely in this case.

adamt

turbobob wrote: »

This share looks to be on SETSmm which is explained a bit more in the link. SETS is the electronic system that shares are traded with on the London Stock Exchange. The market makers are each able to set their bid and ask prices, but other participants can come in and cut them out effectively, unlike a share which is on SEAQ (generally small companies) where the market makers have more control, as explained in this link. I think this probably makes the "tree shake" explaination less likely in this case.

thanks for the links, when reading it does seem confusing , but i will continue to re-read to fully understand.



One last thing, what is the best way to plan my entry level back into ITL?

it has risen now to 113.75, but there has been approimately 40,000 shares sold in the last 20 minutes!

How do others plan to re-enter a share this volatile?
Is there certain times of the day which is best not to trade.
I see that 8am-9am is very volatile

jimmyss1

adamt wrote: »

Is there certain times of the day which is best not to trade.
I see that 8am-9am is very volatile

In most shares, the spreads are much larger than normal in the first hour or so of trading, particularly the first half hour, so usually you can get a much better price (either to sell or buy) after about 9am. Not always, but usually.

I also agree with the other posters in saying that todays movements were most likely not a tree shake, but just general market movements. To get an idea of the volatility of the share, just look at the historial daily price ranges (you can check on google finance). It seems that for the past few weeks at least, a 3-5% swing in the daily prices in normal. Couple that with the overall bad day in mid/small cap companies today, and a price movement down of between say 5-8% would be perfectly normal imo. So, in general if there is an overall sell off in the market, and with no other news coming from this particular company, a fall of over 5% is nothing strange.