getting round estate agents' excessive/OTT reference requirements (!)

tryitandsee?

Hi

I am looking to rent a place. I have my eye on one now however it is an early stage, haven't had a viewing yet.

I am self-employed and do my own accounts, and am encountering on this basis that estate agents are asking for either a guarantor, or a lot of months' rent in advance (6 seems to be the norm; one mentioned the possibility of 3). They say that as I am not 'employed' (giving an easy way of confirming my salary level) and as i don't have an accountant (for easy confirmation of my income), there is a lack of evidence and therefore they need either the guarantor to be in place, or the rent paid in advance.

Great! (...he says with irony...)

basically, I have no-one who could be a guarantor. But I am reluctant to go down the 'pay 6 months rent in advance' (or 3 if I am very lucky) route, to secure an okay place. I believe there are risks involved in that -the landlord might get repossessed at some point during my tenancy in which case I would lose money - for one thing. Also, it's a lot of money to hand over and I would basically have to get a loan to go this route!

SO...what kind of accountants would meet the requirements of estate agents I wonder? I am thinking that as I haven't submitted my tax return of last year yet (as it is not due in till end of Jan 2010 as per normal), I could still get an accountant in for that year; I could employ him simply to do very basic stuff and in the process, provide a reference for me to estate agents.

However, i know few accountants. I am to be specific thinking of a guy who works part-time in accounts at a place I do self-employed work for part-time, who is leaving the company and has mentioned that he is self-employed and does work for a lot of companies. He may be mostly a book-keeper and not that well qualified. I could hire him to be my accountant, purely to look at my records and prepare them for the forthcoming tax return (which I would then do), giving me a bit of advice in order for me to do it, and in the process he could give a reference for me. SO...(!) I'm wondering if this 'level' of person would suffice. He is basically a one-man operation and may not have more than some basic qualifications (or, an accounting technician type qualifications, rather than those of a fully qualified chartered accountant, eg).

Would an estate agent take a reference from him? I might be able to get him to make his reference quite general (as he is friendly, a 'colleague' of a years' standing) so it covered a couple of years. (!) I would not normally do this but basically, the estate agents are simply throwing hurdles in my path as I have never ever not got the rent paid, whether through pay or (at odd times) partly with housign benefit. And I have good credit history etc so there is no risk of me not paying rent in the new place I have my eye on.

(The difficulty with getting formal confirmation of my income level from 2 years' ago - ie the tax year prior to the last one ending in April 2009 - is that due to sick partner my income was lower than normal, it wouldn't be enough, since i was attending to her needs so much. But my colleague could probably blur it and make it sound like my last year's financial income was high enough and this was the norm for me.)

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one estate agent said that maybe showing 6 months' bank statements would satisfy their credit reference agency...it all seems too much hassle to be honest!...it might just about be possible to do it but i am reluctant on privacy grounds.

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re: estate agents in general...some of the reference checking agencies they use, apart from charging you massively to have your references checked (!), well basically there is one that seems quite common among the more expensive looking estate agents where the reference agency wants your tax return details among other things. I'm reluctant to go with this either, I'm not buying a house or something for goodness sake. So I will have to go with another estate agent that doesn't use that particular, excessive agency approach.

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I am all for sensible referencing but in general want to keep it simple. I have a good reference from my main last place of abode where I was for a long time. I will ensure the rent is paid, one way or the other (as in the past). In general, so far in looking for a place, plenty of estate agents are routinely asking for too much (I know - it's a lot to do with me being self-employed but this ain't no crime...) and expecting also to charge *me* for it. ridiculous. A curious thing about this is that landlords know (I gather?) that people who claim housign allowance (for example) can be as reliable as people who don't; so, you'd think landlords would want estate agents to take a less obstructive line...but it's hard to see this going on in the marketplace (? from what i can see).

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Cheers in advance for any feedback!

DX2

i think this would be better in the housing section imho.

alwaysonthego_2

Board Comment

This thread has been moved to the housing board for better response.

Jowo_2

Essentially, you are admitting that your income has been very irregular and that you'd rather have someone submit fake accounts for you rather than do the conventional actions, such as paying more rent upfront.

The estate agents are not being obstructive, it's basic risk management and fairly standard for risky groups of tenants to do. They ask similar things from students and LHA tenants.

As a business person, would you want to hand over a significant asset and do business with someone who can't demonstrate they have sufficient income?

tryitandsee?

@Jowo

I think you are misunuderstanding/misrepresenting my drift. Although, perhaps this is my fault for not being clear enough in one or two respects.

I was already aware that for landlord/estate agent-types, putting my post would be stating things that not all of them agree with. It is, as you say, a common convention that for self-employed people, estate agents ask for a huge chunk of rent in advance upfront, or a guarantor, if you haven't for example got an accountant on board already.

My point was that you can be self-employed and able to ensure the rent is paid, without necessarily having a guarantor, or an accountant (because you don't have the fortune of having a family member to act as guarantor, and when you are in the position of doing your accounts yourself, simply because it is cheaper). For those who are in my kind of self-employed position, one of my points was that the landlords/estate agents' position towards us is discriminatory, since we are able to ensure the rent is paid, by hook or crook, yet are not given the chance to do this on some properties handled by estate agents, because of the way landlords/estate agents are treating our position of being 'self-employed'. In general, in society, I have found that being 'self-employed' can open you up to various kinds of discriminatory treatment (eg from banks) and, alas, it is true in respect to estate agents/landlords also.

I knew that my post would not go down well with all landlord/estate agent-minded people. But I am observing a truth here. And, what is more, I have gone on to landlord-type forums and found plenty of landlords who find the idea of seeking up to 6 months rent in advance from a tenant absurd. So not all landlords/estate agents agree with the requirements imposed on self-employed people; though it can be harder to find them when it comes to looking at estate agents on the high street.

You say that my income is 'very irregular' but ignored the explanation I gave for the level of income in the previous-year-but-one - which in fact I have found most people (even landlords/estate agents) to be understanding of. Wait till your partner has a major illness and is in hospital or on sick leave for 2 years out of 3 and you might be able to comprehend how this affects someone's income, without it necessarily representing their proper income level. But, the main point I was making overall, was that I am able to get the rent paid - and have never been in a position where the LL has not had the rent paid - and so the difficulty is that there is a gulf between this reality and the blunt self-devised requirements of the landlord/estate agents who simply look at all self-employed people without a guarantor or an accountant and say 'you must pay 6 months' rent in advance then'. It is this gap that my post was intended to address, because when there is that kind of gulf in reality, the self-emp. person has a problem and they have to surmount it somehow.

I think in that context you have misunderstood/misrepresented what I meant about accountants and my income - but perhaps on that, precise detail, I could have been clearer, it seems.

Regards

discat11

I admit I was surprised by the amount of checking, although I can see it from the LL/LAs point of view.

I did remark it had been easier to get a mortgage for £65k some 10 years previously than to be checked out for a 1 yr tenancy of £525 pcm!
3 personal references, employers reference and bank details, a utility bill and last payslip & p60!

I was actually tempted to just say 'sod it' and pay 6 months in advance, but I DID pay fees of £138 so I suppose they have to do something to earn that!