Redundancy pls.help...Do we have grounds to question the process?

Tulisanuk

I'm currently working in one of the Luxury Hotels in london. I have been working in the company for 23 years. My position is being redundant along side a colleague and good friend who is looking after 2 major F&B operation for the reason that our payroll is amalgamated. I was in this situation early last year with the previous HR manager, as one of the departments I look after was unfortunately made redundant due to financial difficulties so I know how the process works only this time I’m on the other side of the table and feel that there is a little discrepancy of the situation.

Prior to this meeting we were all working on the budget for 2010 and promptly submitted all our action plans.

MANAGER 1 - Myself
MANAGER 2 - Colleague
If I may just tell you briefly the stages that we have gone through to this date:

STAGE 1 – 1st Consultation
Manager 1 - I was called by our hotel manager and upon entering the office he said that he just needs to make a phone call and he will call me back. I said that if it can wait as I reminded him that we have a catch up meeting the following week but he replied “No I want this done and dusted today”. So I said ok then, just give me a call when you are ready and walked out of the office and waited for his call.
Half an hour later, I received the call and he said that he was ready to speak with me. As I walked in I saw Manager 2 my colleague behind me and said that he was also called for a meeting? As soon as we were sat down the internal HR came in followed by the central HR manager. He then started apologizing for being late and so on which at this stage we were both looking at each other and asking ourselves what is going on. Our hotel manager then closed the door and the central HR manager started talking about the hotels proposal and after doing so he handed the letters to both of us.


STAGE 2 – 2nd Consultation
We handed a letter of our counter proposal (see below). We have gone through all the points one by one and questions have been asked by the Hotel manager, internal HR manager and the central HR manager. After going through all the points of the proposal the central HR manager asked the final question “WHY DID YOU NOT PUT THIS THROUGH DURING BUDGET PREPERATION?” we both look at each other and replied we were not told to do so! We already prepared our budget for 2010 as we have been working on it for the last 4 weeks and already discussed with to our internal & Central HR manager andthe Hotel manager ready for his budget presentation to the executive of the hotel. (We asked daily if the budget we prepared is satisfactory and every time we were told that all is ok and not to worry). The Central HR Manager looked at the Hotel Manager for a comment but none was made so he quickly carried on saying we will go through this again as obviously there are points in our proposal that we need to consider. Central HR manager handed us the entitlement of the redundancy pay. He then said that the internal HR Manager will get back to us by the end of the day and give us the time and date for the second part of the consultation. Up till close of day on Friday the 16th we did not receive any calls as discussed.


STAGE 3 – 2nd Consultation – Continuation
Hotel manager came to see Manager 2 early morning and said that we will have the 2nd half or continuation meeting according to the central HR manager at about 5pm.
Central HR Manager – Mentioned that they have discussed proposal in Park Lane with the executive managers but did not mention that our Hotel Manager is involved with the decision?

Emphasize to us that the reason for the proposal is base on the reconstruction of the outlets and not cutting cost there’s some good stuff in our side (our proposal) certainly in payroll savings but this does not reflect with their proposal.

In terms of new positions e.g. Floor managers - some how not accepted as the person they will bring is will be in charge of our outlet.

Mentioned on the 1st consultation that the position is similar with previous position of the executive manager in 2005 in which we were both working under his supervision.

Thanking us on freezing our salaries but it's not the right way to do it. Reason if we do this is should be for everyone. We can have an agreement as we are the only one facing the redundancy?

We are still interested to hear what other options in our last statement of proposal.

Explained to us the process of 1 can apply to the position if they are to implement the position.

If the implementation of the new position goes ahead then we will have to do a “handover” to the next person before our current position is ended??

We were then told that they have to speak with us individually.

MANAGER 1 - HR explained the process of alternative jobs and if I my intention is still the same e.g. to stay in the hotel preferably in F&B and if there is any further questions we have. Replied - NO

MANAGER 2 - HR explained the process of alternative jobs and if I my intention is still the same e.g. to stay in the hotel preferably in F&B and if there is any further questions we have. Replied - NO
**********************************************************************************************************************************************
OUR PROPOSAL
PROPOSAL IN CONSIDERATION FOR THE ABOLISHMENT OF OUR POSITIONS IN YOUR LETTER REGARDING THE RE-ORGANIZATION OF THE F&B DEPARTMENTS.

MANAGER 1
MANAGER 2

We have reviewed our budget and came up with a Grand total savings of ₤70k by changing the way we run the daily operation. Copy of full proposal available upon request.

In return to the above proposition we are asking you to reconsider the redundancy of our position. We are more than happy to work with the new Services manager and will give our full support as we have done so in the past. As replacement to our current position and moving forward we would like to propose a new title of floor managers concentrating purely in the service side of the business in the departments that we oversee.

As the gravity of your proposal to us and knowing how this might affect our daily lives considering we both have family to support, we are prepared not to have the increase of our salary for next 3 years or so until economic condition stabilize.

Next meeting will finalize the 2nd part of the 2nd consultation so if any of you good people out there have any advice or recommendation pls.do let me know. Thanks

kiddy_guy

I'm sorry - was there a question in there?

If they want to make a role redundant, then that is their choice. If they feel that the need for the job has gone - what do you propose they do? I'm not sure why you think it is personal?

Personally I'd take down all the personal details as it may get spotted and cause issues if it goes to ET.

Tulisanuk

As mentioned on my post that the position is already been done before and we did work under that position only this time our position is being terminated. We propose to work under this position again. Our new hotel manager is not as close to us compared from previous hotel managers we serve. By the way what is ET? I will edit my post and remove personal details as you have recommended. Thanks

jazzyman01

ET is employment tribunal.

It does not state in your first thread whether or not you were given the right to have someone attend the meetings with you?

You have put forward a proposal to save your jobs and as such they should consider this and come back to you.

If there is a new job being created then are both of you being given the opportunity to apply?

Tulisanuk

It does not state in your first thread whether or not you were given the right to have someone attend the meetings with you?

We have agreed to represent each other.

You have put forward a proposal to save your jobs and as such they should consider this and come back to you.

Yes, as stated we have already 2 meetings discussing our proposal but so far 3 out of 7 of our proposal is denied. Final meeting this week and will find out more.

If there is a new job being created then are both of you being given the opportunity to apply?

Yes, it is offered but we both know that the offer is formality as it was offered to us before and know as well that they already have somebody to fill this position.

jazzyman01

But you have the opportunity to take this job now if you want it? If you have refused alternative roles and you have had consultation meetings and they have gone away to consider your proposals then I dont think you will be able to claim that they have not followed a fair process.

Tulisanuk

I already appealed with the decision. All through out we have been told that its not about saving cost. 4 major departments will be amalgamated and the new position will not need any help at all. We found a calculation under the payroll budget for 2010 for additional staff being added. We questioned this and they said that they have investigated but they denied seeing this at all. There is only 4 of us can access this. HR / FC / Asst.FC and myself. Also, when the new vancancy was posted it only mentioned that the new position is only overseeing the departments. PLEASE HELP...