Fraud on my current account

lukecooper

Hi all,

Haven't really posted on here much but I wondered if you could give me some advice about fraud on my current account.

I logged into my internet banking this afternoon, and was horrified to see I was substantially overdrawn. Checking the statement, I found separate transfers over the last couple of days adding up to over £2000. Not only this, but I noticed that my overdraft limit had gone right up as well- not something I had requested.

I rang the bank (a major high street bank) straight away, and after waiting on the phone for ages managed to speak to a human being, who took all the details and had to disappear a couple of times to speak to a team manager. Turns out the overdraft request was done over the telephone, and the transfers were done separately over the phone too. I was assured that the money will come back to me once it has been confirmed that it is fraudulent.

Surely this bank's security must be dreadful if someone was able to request an overdraft over the telephone, and then allowed them to make several transfers over a couple of days without question.

It has been left that I need to drop into an account tomorrow with ID to reset my telephone banking details. Should I kick up a stink about the possible lack of security? What's the best I could hope for by doing this?? Refund of money early? Any kind of compensation payment?! This has left me totally screwed for the next week with no money- I am going to have to dust off a credit card and get using that instead for the next few weeks.

And also- how on earth did someone get my details?! Do I now need to be concerned that I may now become a victim of identity theft? I just checked my credit expert report and all seems fine at the moment.

Thanks and any input would be really helpful.

Luke

opinions4u

lukecooper wrote: »

I was assured that the money will come back to me once it has been confirmed that it is fraudulent.

It almost certainly will do. Fraud investigation can take a few weeks though, so you may suffer some inconvenience during that time. As this one doesn't involve a retailer, the timescales may be a little quicker.

Surely this bank's security must be dreadful if someone was able to request an overdraft over the telephone, and then allowed them to make several transfers over a couple of days without question.

They will have aksed questions, and the fraudster has managed to answer them. While it's possible that a staff member has been negligent, there are other possible explanations. For example:

- the fraudster knows you or is related to you (very common)
- you have unwittingly given the fraudster the details needed to commit the fraud

Should I kick up a stink about the possible lack of security?

Not yet. It hasn't been established that the bank has been negligent.

What's the best I could hope for by doing this?? Refund of money early?

It's unlikely to speed up any fraud investigation. Account holders have been known to transact, claim fraud and then kick off loudly in branches. Those kicking off shouldn't get different treatment to those who passively allow the bank to investigate.

If anything it's a case for an investigator to give higher consideration to the possibility of the customer being the fraudster.

(I'm sure that you're not, but you do need to understand that anybody can simply withdraw funds from their account and then claim they didn't authorise the transaction).

Any kind of compensation payment?!

Eventually, if you can show the bank has been negligent. But if they haven't been negligent (and the fraudster has simply been smart) then who is the victim here? You suffer inconvenience but the bank suffers the financial loss by reimbursing you.

This has left me totally screwed for the next week with no money- I am going to have to dust off a credit card and get using that instead for the next few weeks.

Glad you've got one! That removes a lot of the inconvenience. Make sure you comminicate with your direct debit companies though.

And also- how on earth did someone get my details?! Do I now need to be concerned that I may now become a victim of identity theft?

Possible, but unlikely. That said, I would change any significant or insignificant password and invest in a cross-cut shredder (usually around £15 at Tesco/Staples). Shred anything and everything with a name, address or account details on!

Extant

You won't get compensation, nor do you deserve it - they'll refund the losses from any fraud, so you won't be financially inconvenienced. Any charges incurred etc. should be refunded.

As to what details they had, the bank's fraud department will no doubt pull the telephone call and listen to it. They might be able to tell you.

lukecooper

Oh my goodness, thank you SO much for the replies- so, so useful and i really do appreciate it.

I do understand what you say in that I don't deserve compensation- and beleive me when I say that I for one hate this compensation culture in which we live- (in my line of work I see people wasting mine and other people's time and resources in order to claim some compensation all the time and it grates to say the least)- but this is going to be an absolute pain for the next few weeks with wasted time on the phone, I'm going to need to go into the branch tomorrow and that's going to take quite some time I'm sure. But I was hoping that perhaps they would be able to credit my account sooner rather than later. Never mind, I'll just have to struggle on I suppose!

Again, thanks ever so much for your help.

Luke

Extant

lukecooper wrote: »

But I was hoping that perhaps they would be able to credit my account sooner rather than later.

Who do you bank with? Depending on how "good" (or powerful, if you prefer) their staff are, you might be able to convince them to credit you from a sundry account immediately, awaiting investigation of the fraud. Bear in mind that they would, of course, debit you for the same sum again if they thought you were telling lies, etc.

lukecooper

I'll see who I get to talk to tomorrow. I'm not particularly good at "kicking off"- I'm too polite! So I'm glad your advice is not to kick up a stink. I will however, angle for a credit though. I do think I have a fairly good case to ask for one- since it was the fraudster who asked for an overdraft extention, and therefore that money would not have been available otherwise. Also I want my overdraft restored to the amount that it was as soon as possible- it's now dreadfully huge and this is not what I want on my current account!

Oh and regarding how they got my security number- I just cannot work it out, and I'm desperate to know how it was done. I have trouble remembering it myself as I barely ever use telephone banking (but have never written it down!). Thinking that it could be someone I know is a scary thought- but I just cannot beleive that this is possible. I consider myself a very good judge of character and 100% sure that no-one close enough to me to get that number would do this. It would be interesting to hear the telephone calls, do you think they will let me listen to them?

Perhaps it was Derren Brown?! I hear he is good at guessing numbers!?

m_13

A good scammer can persuade somebody to breach security and if the security is poor it's far easier to do. Some people are employed to do this as part of their work, it's called social engineering (people are always the weak point as we have emotions and feelings). Sometimes it's as simple as talking to the same person twice, them recognising your voice and not going through the correct security because they feel they know you.

When I've rung to do things involving a password then often the person at the end of the 'phone has tried to be helpful and hint at what it is.

Your bank will need to listen to the calls and ensure there was no collusion between the caller and the employee.

lukecooper

M_13 that's really interesting- and worth thinking about. I have experienced the same thing in the past come to think of it- being prompted by staff re: security.

Bit of an update on my situation:

I went into a branch today to reset my telephone banking details and to get an update on the progress of the fraud (as requested by the lady on the phone I originally reported the fraud to), and I also had questions regarding all of the above I wanted to ask. So I went in, and explained I'd like to sit down and chat with somebody about a recent fraud on my account- but it was clear from the start this was not going to happen- the 'greeter person' was really very unhelpful; bordering on obstructive; when it came to getting some answers.

I explained the full story to her, and she started of by saying that I shouldn't have come in- there was nothing they'd be able to do in branch- and it hadn't even been 24hrs since it was reported so there would be nothing to say regarding progress (this was all with a patronising smirk that made me feel about 2 inches tall). I explained that I was just doing what had been asked of me over the phone, and she just kept repeating that there would be no progress to report. I asked her if she could make a phone call to find out but she said no (in a roundabout way), so I asked for a the fraud team phone number- which she initially refused to give to me, and said they would keep me updated and that I should wait. I said to her that I wasn't happy with that, and as I am currently unable to use telephone banking as it has been disabled, I would need some sort of contact number. She then agreed to get the number for me.

I continued by asking questions about the type of security that would have been asked over the phone - she said she didn't know - and when I asked her if she would be able to find out for me she fobbed me off with something along the lines of 'well, it's quite random but it would be to do with mother's maiden name, standing orders set up on the account and things like that'. She was clearly getting quite annoyed with me at this point so I felt I just needed to explain to her how worried I was, and how it really has shaken me up- I feel quite violated by the whole thing. This fell on deaf ears ("this does happen all the time you know") and she then told me that she wouldn't reset my telephone banking number as it shouldn't be done until the fraud had been investigated, and she also put a stop on my card. I asked when I would be likely to get the money back and again, she smirked and said 'well, as I said, it needs to be investigated and it hasn't even been 24 hours, it will take quite sometime'. Realising I was onto a total lost cause, I said my thank-you's and goodbye's, and left.

I walked out feeling incredibly dissatisfied, and I rang the number she gave me straight away.

Talking to the fraud team was a whole different story. They were so, so helpful, and I told them what had happened in the branch. She began by apologising, and said to me, 'if that happens again, tell them you are not leaving until they ring us, and we'll give them what-for'. It turns out there WAS progress to be reported on- the case was being looked into at that very moment, and she went to speak to the girl dealing with it. She came back and told me that the money was going to be refunded this afternoon, and that she would be in touch regarding how the fraud happened. I was also told that I DID need to have my telephone banking number reset by going into a branch, and that I should do this as soon as possible, and that the card DID NOT need to have been destroyed- contrary to the actions of the staff in branch. I asked her the questions I had wanted asking in branch, and had them all answered very satisfactorily, and I came away feeling much happier.

So I now have my money back within 24hrs, and I feel confident that some sort of absolution may come in the next day or two.

As for the branch, I am so annoyed about it I feel tempted to complain about their customer service- I feel I was perfectly reasonable in the questions that I asked, and I was totally polite through the whole episode, but despite this I was met with unhelpfulness, obstructiveness and disinterest.

Again, thank you all for your ongoing assistance- totally invaluable :-)

Luke

missile

Pleased to hear it worked out quickly for you. Credit is due for prompt action by whichever bank.

Nevertheless, I would suggest you open an account with a.n.other bank.
I would suggest it is a good idea to have more than one bank account.

mum2one

Def agree re having a 2nd bank account, I did that after having my handbag stolen yrs ago, back in 2000, this was before fraud was as common as saying hello.

Def complain about the member of staff in the branch, even if its writing, I mean this in the nicest of ways - you've got your head screwed on and didn't take it lying down.

The next person may take their advice, it could be something as simple as that staff member not knowing the procedure, bit of new training, all done, in which case you'd be doing them a favour, know for next time, or if it was someone who didn't want to do help - again this can be clarifed and dealt with accordingly.

So glad its got sorted out so quickly.

It may be worth getting your credit file to check nothing has been added that you didn't ask for - strike while the irons hot xx

ml1682

Can anyone tell me where I stand with regard to 6 fraudulent transactions on my debit card. My card was swallowed by an ATM at 7.30am. Before using the branch I did I had tried several other ATM's in the High Street and they were not working. At 10.30am came out of work and spoke to someone in the branch of Barclays were I used the ATM and they told me that my card had been destroyed. I then cancelled and ordered a new card from my bank Natwest shortly after.

I then received a letter (dated same day as card was swallowed) that said they had noticed some unusual activity and to call them. Basically since then after filling in declaration forms I have had a letter stating that since my card was used with a PIN they do not intend to refund my money.

The transactions took place at 8.29, 8.54, 8.55, 8.56, 9.05 and 9.13. Four of them at the same branch of Asda. Two were for cash back plus £1 odd for goods at Asda.

All I can think happened is that someone 'disabled' some of the other machines and had a camera? pointed on what I was doing so somehow got the PIN.

I don't know if any of that is feasible but it has now been nearly 4 weeks and I have been patient but I am feeling a little cheated both by the ***** who stole my card and by the bank who are suggesting that I am the thief!!!!