University block fines

dmg24

michael137 wrote: »

Some fat idiot set off the fire alarm in our block, and now the entire block is being fined (no, not just damages) for it. This seems to me not only unfair but in contravention of the law. Whist I know universities can levy fines, surely there has to be some action on the part of the individual, as is the case with fixed penalties. Surely they can't do this, it seems to violate the prinicple of rule of law.
Whilst I can understand fines against individuals for specific behaviour, I can't understand this. Surely it also comes under the same common law principle that civil cases can't incur penalties, only damages .

How fat was he? Perhaps he leanded against a nearby wall and his big old tummy got the alarm?

Can you elaborate on this 'principle of rule of law' that you refer to please?

DomTom

they said that to us in my freshers but never actually charged us.

elfen

They can charge you, since it costs them, and they're passing the cost on to those responsible. Might not have happened in past years, so maybe they're hoping by bulk fining the lot of you, it might stop the false alarms happening

michael137

As far as I know, the fire service did not attend, it was the university security who attended and gave it the all clear.
Therefore it's a fine. I can understand damages for the replacement of glass, but surely one should only be fined if one actually does something and the burden of proof lies with the university to prove who did it if issuing fines. I say rule of law, what I mean is that this is an arbitrary fine given with no 'actus rea' on my part. My understanding of law is very basic I admit, but surely this is wrong?

ultimatedingbat

Certainly refuse to pay it! If you did nothing then you should not have to cough upf or anyone else.
They attempted to charge us for a similar issue in first year, and I told them where to go. For one I didnt have the money and 2 the only time I personally set the fire alarm off was entirely by accident when I left my cookies in the oven!

melancholly

ultimatedingbat wrote: »

Certainly refuse to pay it! If you did nothing then you should not have to cough upf or anyone else.
They attempted to charge us for a similar issue in first year, and I told them where to go. For one I didnt have the money and 2 the only time I personally set the fire alarm off was entirely by accident when I left my cookies in the oven!

erm.... even if it was a mistake on your part, if you set the alarm off by your own mistake, you should really have paid up. it's not on to leave that cost to be absorbed by everyone else's rents in that situation. as much as the OP shouldn't pay for their mistake, you shouldn't be proud of making other people pay for your's!

Char_pdc

When I was at uni we had a similar problem - people coming in from a night out and setting off the fire alarms....I guess they thought it was funny or something. IIRC they deducted money from the damage deposit I paid at the beginning of the year - I paid £150 and I got back £127 (ish). They did not provide a breakdown, but I can assume some of it was for the false alarms. Most of the time the cost was not to cover the fire bridage call out but to cover the replacement/repair of the little box on the wall.

If no one owns up then there is really no way of working out who set off the fire alarm. I can see the need for damages, but not sure about the fine unless it is a deterrant. Does it say anything in the contract you signed when you moved in about fines?

esuhl

elfen wrote: »

They can charge you, since it costs them, and they're passing the cost on to those responsible.

But the OP said he wasn't responsible!!!

elfen wrote: »

Might not have happened in past years, so maybe they're hoping by bulk fining the lot of you, it might stop the false alarms happening

Maybe UK citizens should be fined £100 per person for allowing our MPs to scam their expenses. After all, we voted them in, and by fining us all we'll have an incentive to make sure it doesn't happen again. :rolleyes:

Bossworld

Ours (was at Newcastle 4 years ago) used to go off nearly every night, think I only saw the fire service come out once or twice though. They had a big list of stuff they'd fine you for but nothing ever came of it.

If you refuse to pay, can't they evict you though? :S

esuhl

Bossworld wrote: »

If you refuse to pay, can't they evict you though? :S

I'm sure you could claim that this is due to an unlawful clause in the contract, according to the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999.

Personally, I would threaten to sue the university if they insist the OP pays the fine (or they are evicted as a result).

N.B. I'm not a legal specialist, so don't just take my word for it!