Rant. "Private" business sellers (again...)

blue_monkey_2

When I started out I never declared as I was earning under the threashold (£20 a week after the fees) but I was supposed to and so I backdated, got fined but explained I did not think I had to declare if earning under the threshold and the fine was revoked and I've been self employed ever since.

I do think that a lot of people earn money on top of their benefits/wages and 'hide' their money in their paypal account and use it for gift/shopping vouchers and this is how many of the vouchers exceed their face value price. I recently started accepting Paypal on my website and my sales have rocketed.

Although it is a benefit for me and I get more sales now, I do think it is wrong that there is a place for people to be able trade and hide their additional earnings ot to be able to 'run' a business without making any declaration. Excuses such as 'I do not earn enough' or 'why should I?' are not really acceptable. Fraud is fraud at the end of the day. Why should someone getting £1000 in benefits then be able to earn another £1000 a month because the money never reaches their Bank Accounts? Would you, as working and tax paying person, find it acceptable that someone unemployed was working on the side while getting full benefits? Would you feel it 'fair' that could have a new car in their drive or took a much better holiday than you because they were commiting fraud? eBay/Paypal is the reason that this can now happen. In fact, why should you even bother getting a job if you can earn extra money or run a bueinss on top of your benefits/wages and get away with it.

You can have the same Paypal account linked to both a buying and selling account so the money just stays in the Paypal system going around and around, you can even pay your fees by Paypal as you go so 'Ebay' will never appear on your bank statement. This ensures that there is never any 'paper trail' as no money ever touches the buyer/sellers bank accounts.

EBay and Paypal are encouraging this kind benefit/taxation fraud by keeping the money within the Paypal system.

cyberbob

blue_monkey wrote: »

I recently started accepting Paypal on my website and my sales have rocketed.

I'm confused how does this prove its people avoiding Tax. Not sure what your point is here

blue_monkey wrote: »

Fraud is fraud at the end of the day

Sorry to be pedantic its actually Tax evasion.

blue_monkey wrote: »

eBay/Paypal is the reason that this can now happen. In fact, why should you even bother getting a job if you can earn extra money or run a business on top of your benefits/wages and get away with it.

This has always gone on from people accepting cash in hand to accepting other Gratuities. I doubt there is an increase its just instead of selling things at boot sales for cash. People now sell on ebay

blue_monkey wrote: »

EBay and Paypal are encouraging this kind benefit/taxation fraud by keeping the money within the Paypal system.

As I said above your conclusions are a bit of a leap. DWP ferequently trawl through areas of ebay. As they follow people they think are defrauding benefits. This has always gone on to some degree its just methods change.

If you read around the DWP now catch more people claiming benefits they are not entitled to than ever. Its a shame as much effort is put into big business Tax Avoidance

blue_monkey_2

cyberbob wrote: »

I'm confused how does this prove its people avoiding Tax. Not sure what your point is here

Sorry to be pedantic its actually Tax evasion.

This has always gone on from people accepting cash in hand to accepting other Gratuities. I doubt there is an increase its just instead of selling things at boot sales for cash. People now sell on ebay

As I said above your conclusions are a bit of a leap. DWP ferequently trawl through areas of ebay. As they follow people they think are defrauding benefits. This has always gone on to some degree its just methods change.

If you read around the DWP now catch more people claiming benefits they are not entitled to than ever. Its a shame as much effort is put into big business Tax Avoidance

If someone is claiming benefit and trading on eBay then it is Benefit Fraud, not tax evasion - actually it is both - does that make it worse??

People will trade on eBay and leave the money in Paypal so it never reaches their bank accounts, there have been plenty of threads dicussing it elsewhere. I know someone who has done it in the past while racking in £1500+ a month on benefits. Ebay meant they could actually earn more without ever leaving home (but to go to the Post Office!!).

I did not say everyone did it but there will be plenty who do.

Car boot sales are different to eBay - eBay opens the 'marketplace' up to more people, people who do not have a car for example, or people who have kids who cannot take them to car boot sales.

Likewise it enables people to run a business and either avoid tax or claim benefits they would otherwise not be entitled to. Both of which I believe are illegal. Businesses will find a way to avoid paying tax, even the small business person will do this and this is what they pay accountants for, but just because they do it does not make it right to commit tax evasion or benefit fraud. Unless of course you are happy doing the time or repaying the benefits when caught.

DaveAshton

blue_monkey wrote: »

Businesses will find a way to avoid paying tax, even the small business person will do this and this is what they pay accountants for, but just because they do it does not make it right to commit tax evasion or benefit fraud.

Very true. That's why there's a difference between avoidance and evasion. One's legal, the other... not so much.

You're right about the number of benefit cheats on ebay though, it's precisely because of them that vouchers sell for more than face value. Spending £110.00 on 10 £10 Tesco vouchers is better than the £100 hitting the bank account every few days.

It does mean we get our money's worth when we sell the vouchers we can't use. I'm not saying I agree with it, but I'll use it our advantage if the government won't do anything about them.

StaffsSW

DaveAshton wrote: »

Never heard of Blackthorne???

I thought it was maybe Selling Manager Pro or something like that. They've only recently started doing it, so maybe 30 day free trial?

Blackthorne was an independent ecommerce managment tool based in the USA, similar to Channel Advisor. I've just seen that it has been bought by ebay, and it runs similar to SMP, but costs between $10 and $25 per month. It used to be about $250 per month.

It's not fully supported by the UK site, but a few bigger volume sellers have been using it.