Should I pay a £15 admin charge? (Its not from a bank though!)

name1

Hi guys,

I wondered anyone might be able to help. I've just received a letter from the train company I have my season ticket with fining me £18.10, plus a £15 admin fee and I wanted to know peoples' thoughts on whether I should pay the £15 admin fee?

By the way, I hope I've posted this on the right board - I guess it does come under budgeting? I think it also has links to the bank charges debate.

I'm in the process of claiming back charges for about £250 from Barclays, so am aware of the issues around bank charges, but wondered if train companies (or indeed any organisations') admin charges were on an equally dodgy legal footing.

So, how did I get myself into this situation?

Well, I forgot my season ticket on a journey about a month ago, and the chap at the ticket gates made me pay the journey cost of £1.90 and issued me with a penalty fare of £18.10 - it costs this much because the company, One Railways, has a standard £20 standard penalty fare, from which it subtracts the cost of ticket you had to buy, so in my case minus the £1.90 ie £18.10. I then had three weeks to send the company a photocopy of my season ticket and they would cancel the fine. Foolishly, I forgot to do this and I've now had a letter from IRCAS (Independent Revenue Collection & Support https://www.ircas.co.uk , who collect fines on behalf of a number of train companies) saying that I've forfeited my right to appeal and now must pay the £18.10 plus a £15 administration fee.

I've looked on the Strategic Rail Authority's penalty charge rules and it makes no mention of any administration charges, so I wonder whether my train company are whacking the £15 admin fee on me in a similar way to how banks do the same for going overdrawn.

I don't see how it costs them £15 to process a fine, when surely the penalty fare itself should cover any costs they may have?

I'm considering not paying the administration fee and then seeing what happens. If its similar to the bank charges situation then i guess they'll never take me to court.

What does everyone think?

Thanks!

James

MarkyMarkD

It's not an admin fee levied by the train company, it's a debt collection fee.

There's nothing illegal about debt collection fees. You didn't pay the fine when it was due and it's not illegal, therefore, for them to seek the additional £15, IMHO.

jonesMUFCforever

You should have had your season ticket on you when you travelled - you didn't.
You had three weeks to send copy of season ticket - you didn't.
IMO you should pay NOW to avoid it being escalated - next thing will be a court summons.

bookworm1363

I disagree with previous posters.

The administration fee is valid if it is a genuine pre-estimate of their costs. Is it? Does it cost them £15 to pursue your fine? I have my doubts.

In order for you to avoid further unpleasantness, I would suggest you do pay it, then pursue them for the admin charge like you have done for the bank, exactly same procedure.

grumbler

bookworm1363 wrote:

The administration fee is valid if it is a genuine pre-estimate of their costs. Is it? Does it cost them £15 to pursue your fine? I have my doubts.

And what is your pre-estimate? Are you prepared to to buy £18 debt for £10 (for example) and then chase somebody for this debt to get £8 profit plus £12 (OFT figure) fee? :rolleyes: Even £15 figure looks far too small for me ...
If you want to repair the TV set they usually ask £50 only to look into it and to tell whether they are able to repair it.

MarkyMarkD

Bookworm

Your post is completely wrong.

If someone passes a debt to a debt collection company, and that debt collection company levies a fee of £15, then that's the amount you have to pay. It's nothing to do with penalty fees in contracts.

bookworm1363

MarkyMarkD wrote:

it's not illegal, therefore, for them to seek the additional £15, IMHO.

You say it's your opinion, and in your next post, state that I'm "completely wrong".

Always happy to learn and to stand corrected. Can you please post the law case/precedents on which you base your "humble" opinion?

Thanks in advance.

Astaroth

The laws/ rules on debt collection have changed so that debt collection agencies can now get their "fee" directly from the person that has not paid rather than from the company that is owed the money.

http://www.oft.gov.uk/NR/rdonlyres/50F06527-9FC5-4610-B385-999D6E2A8950/0/oft664.pdf

There is still an element of "reasonable" costs - personally I think that given it is going to take a significant amount of man time to "buy" the debt, setup a file, send letters out, handle the payment of the fine etc that £15 is not unreasonable (in my opinion)

bookworm1363

Astaroth wrote:

The laws/ rules on debt collection have changed so that debt collection agencies can now get their "fee" directly from the person that has not paid rather than from the company that is owed the money.

http://www.oft.gov.uk/NR/rdonlyres/50F06527-9FC5-4610-B385-999D6E2A8950/0/oft664.pdf

There is still an element of "reasonable" costs - personally I think that given it is going to take a significant amount of man time to "buy" the debt, setup a file, send letters out, handle the payment of the fine etc that £15 is not unreasonable (in my opinion)

Thanks for that, I'll check it out.

jonesMUFCforever

Bookworm 1363 huddles off to eat humble pie!

bookworm1363

Er, no.

I said "I'll check it out". It means at this point, I have not made up my mind whether this is valid, or indeed relevant, information.

Astaroth states that fees can get collected from individual rather than the company, did I say otherwise? I don't think so.

Astaroth also points out that there is still an element of "reasonableness", which I believe was the point I was making. The argument, as always, would be what constitutes "reasonable".

Furthermore, unlike some know-it-all that don't seem to know that much, since they let someone else supply the information they themselves seem unable to get, I did say I was happy to be corrected if I was wrong. And if I am, I will come back here and say so to OP with an apology TO OP for giving him misleading information.

On the other hand, I'm all in favour of occupational therapy, so if it makes you feel better to thumb your nose and stick your tongue out at me, go ahead. I hope it saves the NHS some money.