Mains optimiser - Saves you £££??

st999

I have just come across this thread and I cannot believe how gullible some people are.

If this mains optimiser reduces the voltage where does the reduced voltage go? Probably given off as heat that is how you will use less electricity for heating:rotfl:

Your meter will still be recording the same usage of electricity.

Even if it saves you 10% of your total electricity bill with me that would be 400 kWh at 10p per kWh which is £40 for an outlay of £300 plus fitting.

So it would take a minimum of 7.5 years at 10% saving or 15 years at 5% saving to even pay for itself and no one has even proved it works.

and how long is it guaranteed for?

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and the device referred to is displayed on their site.:eek:

Stan

Cardew

st999 wrote: »

I have just come across this thread and I cannot believe how gullible some people are.

If this mains optimiser reduces the voltage where does the reduced voltage go? Probably given off as heat that is how you will use less electricity for heating:rotfl:

As a couple of posters have come up with this comment, you really should understand that you are quite mistaken.

It is difficult to explain if you have little electrical knowledge, but I will try.

You don't pay for voltage, you pay for 'power' consumed(in kWh). That power(kW) is dependent on two factors - the voltage and the current and kWh is how long you use that power. So the following examples all use the same power:

A supply of 1,000 volts flowing at a current of 1 amp uses 1kW

A supply of 250 volts flowing at a current of 4 amps uses 1 kW

A supply of 10 volts flowing at a current of 100 amps uses 1kW

Lots of appliances have their voltage dropped down from 240 to 9 volts or 12 volts(that is what the small black box you plug into the 13 amp socket does).

Other appliances have their voltage dropped down inside the appliance, as most electronics work on very low voltage.

In a TV set the voltage can be increased to thousands of volts.

So you really need to understand that reducing, or increasing, the voltage itself does not cause any losses. So that 'reduced voltage'(as you term it) or even increased voltage in a TV does not cost anything, all that matters is the current flow in amps.

Now you need to take my word for it that if the voltage fed into your house is dropped down to a lower level it will reduce the current flow in many appliances and thus reduce the power they consume. That is the principle of this 'Mains optimiser'.

Some appliances, like a fridge, will run at lower voltages and thus will not use as much power.

Other items with heaters will also use less power, but will give out less heat. So to get the same heat you have to run the heater for longer and this results in exactly the same power being consumed and hence the same cost.

The debate is not if it saves money(it will) but just how much.

st999

the voltage fed into your house is dropped down to a lower level

after it has gone through the meter.

OK I understand that but where does the extra voltage go?

Is it dissipated as heat, light, electromagnetic force field, X-rays?

It must go somewhere. 250 volts go in 220 volts come out, where has it gone?

Stan

Cardew

st999 wrote: »

after it has gone through the meter.

OK I understand that but where does the extra voltage go?

Is it dissipated as heat, light, electromagnetic force field, X-rays?

It must go somewhere. 250 volts go in 220 volts come out, where has it gone?

Stan

It doesn't 'go' anywhere. It isn't dissipated in any form.

The National Grid voltage across UK is 400,000 volts. That is stepped down to a nominal 240 volts.

Your question is like asking where has the 399,760 volts gone.

Another way of looking at voltage is 'pressure'.

Let us say that the water main supply to your house is capable of delivering water to your house at, say, 240 PSI(pounds per square inch pressure).(the Voltage)

The amount of water you use is determined by the flow of water(the current) in your house. You determine that flow by restricting the flow with taps etc(the resistance)

Reduce the pressure(volts) to 220PSI and the flow will be less, so your bath will take longer to fill.

st999

your bath will take longer to fill

and because of that the water will be colder because it takes longer to fill.

The National Grid voltage across UK is 400,000 volts. That is stepped down to a nominal 240 volts.

Yes, so why not just use a simple transformer to step down the voltage to 220 volts?

And have you ever felt a transformer that was not warmer than the ambient temperature.

Even a transformer has losses by way of heat when it transforms the voltage either from 250 to 220 or 400000 to 240 volts.

To make this simple for you, 100 things* go into the device 90 things* come out.

Where are the 10 things*

you get nothing for nothing.

* things can be anything, joules, watts, litres, inches call them what you want.

want to buy a magnet, stops your kettle furring up. B&Q were selling them a few years ago up here in Scotland. And they actually sold some, I knew someone who bought one.

I asked him why? It's to stops my hot tank furring up. Does it work I asked him? Yes my tank in the attic hasn't furred up he said. That would be a miracle if it did furr up in Scotland the water here does not contain limestone.

Like I said, there is one born every minute.

Stan

Andy_WSM

st999 wrote: »

Yes, so why not just use a simple transformer to step down the voltage to 220 volts?

And have you ever felt a transformer that was not warmer than the ambient temperature.

This is why they don't use a transformer, because they are lossy and do waste power in the form of heat.

I think in very simple terms - The box uses a canceling effect on the sine wave i.e. the power to your house switches on & off very quickly (50 times a second). By canceling out part of the on-off cycle you can reduce the voltage seen at your sockets.

Cardew, is that your take on how these work?

Cardew

st999 wrote: »

Yes, so why not just use a simple transformer to step down the voltage to 220 volts?

And have you ever felt a transformer that was not warmer than the ambient temperature.

Even a transformer has losses by way of heat when it transforms the voltage either from 250 to 220 or 400000 to 240 volts.

To make this simple for you, 100 things* go into the device 90 things* come out.

Where are the 10 things*

you get nothing for nothing.

* things can be anything, joules, watts, litres, inches call them what you want.

Thank you for making things "simple for me" Wish you had been about during my studies.;)

It seems for the purposes of this thread I will have to bow to your superior knowledge of electrical theory.

Must remember this quote:

100 things* go into the device 90 things* come out.

Where are the 10 things*

mikey72

Andy_WSM wrote: »

This is why they don't use a transformer, because they are lossy and do waste power in the form of heat.

I think in very simple terms - The box uses a canceling effect on the sine wave i.e. the power to your house switches on & off very quickly (50 times a second). By canceling out part of the on-off cycle you can reduce the voltage seen at your sockets.

Cardew, is that your take on how these work?

I assumed it was a switchmode device as well, chopping anything over 220v, particuarly as it's fairly low power.

parody

It seems I have started quite debate!

I like the post, sounds like you are an electrician and the last sentence sums it up. Not if but how much. And as has been said, this is dependent on several factors in each household. And this is what the trials are for, to show what on average this will be, and whether that is worthwhile against the (current) cost of the unit. Until the results of that we can only speculate. Perhaps the VX1 wont be worthwhile but the patented technology may be when combined with other products or devices.

And as for the investment, speculate to accumulate and all that...

Cardew wrote: »

As a couple of posters have come up with this comment, you really should understand that you are quite mistaken.

It is difficult to explain if you have little electrical knowledge, but I will try.

You don't pay for voltage, you pay for 'power' consumed(in kWh). That power(kW) is dependent on two factors - the voltage and the current and kWh is how long you use that power. So the following examples all use the same power:

A supply of 1,000 volts flowing at a current of 1 amp uses 1kW

A supply of 250 volts flowing at a current of 4 amps uses 1 kW

A supply of 10 volts flowing at a current of 100 amps uses 1kW

Lots of appliances have their voltage dropped down from 240 to 9 volts or 12 volts(that is what the small black box you plug into the 13 amp socket does).

Other appliances have their voltage dropped down inside the appliance, as most electronics work on very low voltage.

In a TV set the voltage can be increased to thousands of volts.

So you really need to understand that reducing, or increasing, the voltage itself does not cause any losses. So that 'reduced voltage'(as you term it) or even increased voltage in a TV does not cost anything, all that matters is the current flow in amps.

Now you need to take my word for it that if the voltage fed into your house is dropped down to a lower level it will reduce the current flow in many appliances and thus reduce the power they consume. That is the principle of this 'Mains optimiser'.

Some appliances, like a fridge, will run at lower voltages and thus will not use as much power.

Other items with heaters will also use less power, but will give out less heat. So to get the same heat you have to run the heater for longer and this results in exactly the same power being consumed and hence the same cost.

The debate is not if it saves money(it will) but just how much.

Premier_2

st999 wrote: »

and because of that the water will be colder because it takes longer to fill...

Or warmer

(or even the same)

No one mentioned filling the bath with hot water.
Any change in temperature of water in the bath will be due to any difference in ambient temperature compared with that of the water filling the bath.