Credit card Fraud

Paul_Varjak

Moonrakerz...

You make some very interesting points. I had more or less convinced myself that it is better to use my debit card rather than my credit card. But you are correct. If my debit card is used it is MY money being used and that could lead into a spiral of debt with bank charges etc!

At least when a credit card is being used fraudulently then it is the credit card's money (not the card holder's). Even the Police recognise this - that is why they closed my report to them about the theft because I am NOT the victim - the credt card company is!

Also, with credit card fraud there is plenty of time to notice the fraud before any payment comes out of any bank account to pay the credit card bill! I log into internet banking every day just to check my bank and credit card status - just to ensure I am not in debt.

Anyway, I think it is probably a good idea to use separate institutions for credit cards and bank accounts. That way, the credit card company cannot dip into bank accounts funds to pay off a credit card without permission!

I had got into the habit of paying online using my debit card for amounts under £100, falsely believing that only VISA debit cards had a chargeback facility. But VISA credit cards also offer chargeback. For amounts over £100 I usually use my credit card, relying on S75 protection.

I think you are right about using a debit card as little as possible and only with recognised shops and websites. You suggestion about buying with a credit card and immediately transferring funds from a bank account to pay the credit card is also a good idea as it enables a lower credit limit to be used on a credit card.

Just one thought though! Would you still get S75 protection if you bought something on your credit card whilst your credit card has a positive balance immediately before (and possibly immediately after) a transaction?

Paul_Varjak

Dirty_Dave wrote: »

Many think it won't happen to them or don't even like to think about it so if/when it does happen then it is naturally a shock. I know I wouldn't be like "oh well, it's only credit card fraud, it happens all the time." I'd be mortified and worried what other information they had. I'd probably be rather annoyed and would probably share it with others online and offline.

You have summed up my thoughts very succinctly! Credit card fraud is now very common and I am aware that lots of people MSE post about it but it is still a great shock when it happens. I really have no idea how it happened to me and that is very frustrating.

I am always vigilant when using my cards - I cover up my pin entry at ATMs and in shops and I always make sure I order only from HTTPS secure websites. I NEVER write down my PIN and I use a different PIN on my cards than I do to unlock my mobile phone etc!

I don't know what this fraudster knows about me at all. He/she may have generated my card details randomly (if I believe my bank). What I do know is that on one website someone placed three orders (for the same goods) in quick succession. My details were only used in ONE of those transactions, so it was clearly part of a bigger scam.

Paul_Varjak

Elky Elky...

From what you say it would seem almost incomprehensible to me that a fraudster could generate both the card number, CCV number and expiry date. I also like your suggestion of using a basic bank account - that would be especially useful when a credit card incurs transaction fees - such as on Ryanair flights!

The only thing I disagree on is that merchants check the name against the credit card. I had thought (until today) that this was done as a matter of course but VISA, my bank and the payment processor (in this case moneybookers.com) have confirmed that names are not necessarily checked on credit card transactions.

My bank does say that name and address checks are done on ALL debit card transactions. My bank's credit card department says that some payment processors do NOT check the name/address details against the card for credit card purchases. Moneybookers.com confirmed that they do not do name/address checks when a credit card is used. Personally, I think that is reprehensible and should be illegal. I have asked moneybookers.com to justify their failings.

richardlionheart

this is how its done !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGBwDX7oGH0&feature=related

Paul_Varjak

richardlionheart wrote: »

this is how its done !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGBwDX7oGH0&feature=related

Ha ha ha. I have seen that before!

Number_Six

Paul - I haver said for years that if my debit card gets ripped off it's my money, if the credit card gets ripped off it's the credit card company's. That's why I have three credit cards (OK two will suffice, a mastercard and a visa one), the only reason I have a third is that my bank gave me one but put those rip-off payment protection policies, which I have since cancelled. I think two credit cards minimum (for contingencies) is what we all should have, always pay them off in full if you can every month and be very careful who who give any financial information to these days as ripping off people is a national sport in some parts of the world.

Paul_Varjak

Thanks for that Number Six. I now have further evidence that fraudulent transactions on credit cards is with the credit card company's monies (rather than my money)

By that, I mean my credit card company will no longer speak to me about the fraudulent transaction. They claim that because I closed the account I am now a third party and refuse to take any information I have about the fraudulent transactions!

I have also found out that the payment processor one of the fraudulent transaction (moneybookers.com) does NOT do any name/address checks on either credit card or debit card transactions!

That means my card was used in TWO transactions using different names and different addresses. The payment processors were also different for the two transactions - but I am not sure who the other payment processor was. Luckily, the second transaction for around £1,700 failed.

Both transactions were in euros with companies based in Holland.

I am now looking for a person of Dutch origin who turns female when wearing over-sized shoes but male when riding a mountain bike!

moonrakerz

Paul_Varjak wrote: »

I had got into the habit of paying online using my debit card for amounts under £100, falsely believing that only VISA debit cards had a chargeback facility. But VISA credit cards also offer chargeback. For amounts over £100 I usually use my credit card, relying on S75 protection.

Don't get S75 confused with any fraud that may occur - totally different !

Paul_Varjak wrote: »

Just one thought though! Would you still get S75 protection if you bought something on your credit card whilst your credit card has a positive balance immediately before (and possibly immediately after) a transaction?

Yes. Your account may be in credit but the bank still paid for the item, not you.

ElkyElky

Paul_Varjak wrote: »

I am now looking for a person of Dutch origin who turns female when wearing over-sized shoes but male when riding a mountain bike!

It's going to be tricky tracking down that person. That rules out about 60% of Hollands male (or should it be female??? God, I'm more confused than them.) population. :rotfl:

Paul_Varjak

Hi moonrakerz...

No, I am not confused over S.75 and fraud. I know S.75 does not protect against fraud. However charegback can be used to restore my CC account via my credit card company or the payment processor.

In fact, the payment processor has asked that I make a chargeback claim via them - asking me not to do it via my CC company. Perhaps the CC company inflicts penalties on the payment processor for fraudulent transactions? The payment processor say they will seek reimbursement from the merchant.

Thanks for the confirmation that I am still protected by S.75 even if my CC account is in credit.