BIG problems with Deposit & Inventory

B123_2

It has been sometime since I have posted on here regarding my VERY messy deposit situation. Still nothing has been resolved.

Any rent arrears that we owed were paid more than 2 weeks ago, and we did not hear from the agents following this. I have tried to contact the TDS on a number of occasions via phone, I am told that their advisors are busy and they take my contact details but I never receive a call-back!

The agents have now (after 2 weeks) contacted us again are now pushing to know which steps we are going to take. Of course, we will be disputing the £2000 bill (which incidently they still have not provided invoices for..just a printed list of costs, no evidence of estimates, no actual evidence that they did the work, which they say has taken place).

I was wondering whether anyone knows whether I can still dispute through the TDS? We have all agent emails/inventory etc printed out and ready to go, but the new TDS literature states that disputes can be raised through them no later than 20 days after the end of tenancy. It is now nearly 2 months. However, we did not actually receive the check out inventory and break-down till 30+ days after the tenancy ended.

I am also now a little concerned as to whether it can go through the TDS because the amount being claimed is more than £1000 larger than our registered deposit? The LL/agents have not raised a dispute through them, but want to know if we will?

Does anyone have any experience of the TDS/IEC assisting if the 'damage' does exceed the deposit?

Their literature in the v.exciting 'The progress of a Dispute' handbook says that the "Landlord/Agent should attempt to resolve the dispute within 10 working days. If they can not do so, or you remain dissatisfied, the dispute should be referred promptly for resolution by the ICE or the courts". Our agents sat on any info they had for a good 30+ days, and then the bill shot-up. Should they have contacted the TDS straight away? Given that they had the info and we did not?

Sorry, this is long and rather confusing. Any pointers would be good. I want to send my info to the TDS, but don't want to get in a muddle if actually they are not going to be able to help us.

Also, thanks everyone for their help. Had a stealth, snooty phone-call of the agents and when they wound me up by constantly refering to my guarantor as 'your mum' I was quite able to quote rather alot to them (the housing-act etc) and that ended the call pretty quickly!:o

clutton_2

what i would do if i were you, is tell both landlord AND deposit scheme that you do not choose to use their arbitration scheme. This means that the LL will have to take you to court, and will have to prove his allegations clearly and unequivocably.

he may decide it worth while to negotiate with you if you do this..... and offer you an out of court settlement

B123_2

clutton wrote: »

what i would do if i were you, is tell both landlord AND deposit scheme that you do not choose to use their arbitration scheme. This means that the LL will have to take you to court, and will have to prove his allegations clearly and unequivocably.

he may decide it worth while to negotiate with you if you do this..... and offer you an out of court settlement

This is what we are thinking. However, this I can see being costly.

The LL is not someone with a small portfolio of property, but an off-shoot of a large international company. With this, we worry that they have a lot of tricks up their sleeve, and many resources available to them. This money, in their grand scheme, is pittance.

I am wondering if their is any way that we can deal directly with the LL/rep for this company rather than the agents? Does anyone if there is anything that allows me to do this? I guess the agents are being paid a considerable amount to wear us out!

Is there only the choice of TDS or court? It's frustrating, I know I don't owe anything, but I am having to explore all avenues to make sure that they can't make up a sum & take it!

Jowo_2

Agents are usually an irrelevance from a legal point of view - they merely represent the landlord and do not replace them. An AST is between the tenant and the landlord, whether or not an agent signs it on their behalf. The best way I've heard agents described is that they are a transparent window through to the landlord.


Contact Shelter for advice.

B123_2

Jowo wrote: »

Agents are usually an irrelevance from a legal point of view - they merely represent the landlord and do not replace them. An AST is between the tenant and the landlord, whether or not an agent signs it on their behalf. The best way I've heard agents described is that they are a transparent window through to the landlord.


Contact Shelter for advice.

That is pretty interesting. The agents have actually only made reference to the LL in correspondence twice, and this was recently. Prehaps I should suggest that we cut out the middle man! Certainly would like to be rid of the vicious agents.

I have contacted Shelter by email, and I'm waiting for a reply. I have also emailed TDS directly, as I can never get through on the phone. Thinking of going to Citizens Advice also .. but I am not really sure what service they provide & would have to get time of work etc. Thanks for the help.

-Ad-

Firstly stop worrying.

The thing I'm not sure about is the rent arrears. You should have paid all the rent up to date then chased them for the deposit money, I'm not sure how that will affect things.

Essentially the onus is on THEM to prove you caused the damage. If there is no signed DETAILED inventory of condition with pictorial evidence from the start of the tennancy then you could in theory have turned it into a dump. As there is no baseline showing its condition before then there is no way to prove is wasn't left in the state it was at the start.

You need to send them a letter formally requesting the return of the FULL amount of monies owed to be returned with 10 days, You cannot start the dispute process without that official letter/e-mail to the Agent/Landlord.

I have only skimmed over your thread, but have you payed the rent yet?

FYI I have got money back from dodgy student LL's before and got eveery single penny back from a dodgy letting agent in London last year, even though there were some costs written into the contract. But I did ammend the inventory at teh beginning myself, have dated pictures (well the .jpe file dates) from before and after.

B123_2

-Ad- wrote: »

Firstly stop worrying.

The thing I'm not sure about is the rent arrears. You should have paid all the rent up to date then chased them for the deposit money, I'm not sure how that will affect things.

Essentially the onus is on THEM to prove you caused the damage. If there is no signed DETAILED inventory of condition with pictorial evidence from the start of the tennancy then you could in theory have turned it into a dump. As there is no baseline showing its condition before then there is no way to prove is wasn't left in the state it was at the start.

You need to send them a letter formally requesting the return of the FULL amount of monies owed to be returned with 10 days, You cannot start the dispute process without that official letter/e-mail to the Agent/Landlord.

I have only skimmed over your thread, but have you payed the rent yet?

FYI I have got money back from dodgy student LL's before and got eveery single penny back from a dodgy letting agent in London last year, even though there were some costs written into the contract. But I did ammend the inventory at teh beginning myself, have dated pictures (well the .jpe file dates) from before and after.

Sorry, don't know how to the cut the quote up!
Thanks -Ad- for the info. We paid our rent arrears once we had received the full-breakdown (which is literally a typed list of costs). Due to previous experience and advice we decided not the pay the final months rent. Strictly this is wrong, and we are aware of this. However, given that they would not provide us with any information (ie.Original inventory, check-out inventory,invoices or actual costs) we were not prepared to pay out a further £1000 at move-out whilst they were already sitting on a considerable amount of our money.

From the advice on this forum I looked into what could and should be subtracted from the deposit, and rent arrears was one of these items. They however viewed this as a seperate matter. Infact, I have since learned that it was being dealt with by a seperate section of the company who didnot correspond with one another. Once we had the breakdown we paid the costs the next day.

Unfortunately, when we moved in the inventory was v basic and incorrect. We amended it, and sent it back for them to sign and agree. We were informed we would receive a formal copy, and despite chasing this we did not. Infact, we only received this 30+ days after moving out, and it has the check-out inventory (handwritten) scrawled across it! Without them providing us with this, we could have assumed that there was no inventory.

The check-out inventory(on top of our original) has not be signed or dated..and given it was so long before we received it they could quite easily have amended this at any point.

Unfortunately, we do not have any photographic info, other than general snaps we have taken for personal use rather than just of the property. I am kicking myself now that I did not take a picture of the builders beautiful workmanship at the time they replaced the electrics! In a bit of a pickle!

Also, they did monthly checks. They have said this was for the LL benefit & not our own. I would think something would have been said at this point though, given how expensive the final costs have been? Can we request copies of these even though they say that it is not our business?

B123_2

This is an odd question... I am hopefully going to be meeting with someone this evening for free legal advice regarding my situtation.

Is anyone aware of any recent changes with the the deposit scheme/return of deposits that I should ask them about specifically? I have noticed some slight differences in information (eg.Timescales to raise a dispute) in the original TDS info I was given, and the new leaflets on their website.

Any pointers would be great. Don't want to waste the opportunity I have to discuss this with someone. Cheers!

chappers

I would keep chasing the TDS but as the LL is claiming above the deposit figure this would be acourt case. I see no reason why you couldn't make your own case.
You said the inventory was very basic, did it make any mention of the areas that you are supposed to have damaged for example did it say something along the lines of "wooden floor, newly laid new/excellent condition".

There are allowances for wear and tear and this would have to be guaged against the original quality of the item , for example I would expect to see no signs of wear or damage to a new solid stone floor however a cheap carpet with no underlay could be worn through in a year, or less in high traffic areas.

With regards to the periodic inspections, they are for the LL benefit but if you went to court you could mention in your evidence that periodic inpections were made and nothing was highlighted, they then may be asked to produce these documents as evidence.Though i am not sure what weight they would carry either way as its the condition of the property at checkout that matters.

I would send them afurther letter requesting your deposit being returned staing that unless they can substaiate their claims against you, that you will be pursueing them through the small claims court.

B123_2

chappers wrote: »

You said the inventory was very basic, did it make any mention of the areas that you are supposed to have damaged for example did it say something along the lines of "wooden floor, newly laid new/excellent condition".


I would send them afurther letter requesting your deposit being returned staing that unless they can substaiate their claims against you, that you will be pursueing them through the small claims court.

The inventory is very basic indeed, the check-out inventory added on top is even more so. Checked over it again last night and it is actually quite odd considering it's importance. We are talking words like "wipe" and "mark" . Looks a tad rushed!

I have heard from the TDS that have said, although it wasn't clear, that the 20 day timescale to raise a dispute refers to the time in which a tenant must inform the LL that they are not happy with the deductions they have claimed. We have 6 months to raise it formally with the TDS. We informed them after 9 days that we weren't happy with the initial estimate. However, we were not informed of the actual amount of deductions, with breakdown until 39 days later. Wonder if they should have done that sooner?:rolleyes:

We will be attempting to go through the TDS..however they will not deal with any sums over the deposit amount. Which makes filling in the itemised TDS2 Notification form a little tricky. This does mean that they the remainder will have to go to court, but I am unsure as to where we stand if the TDS go in our favour?

The TDS2 Notification form asks for a copy of check-in (and check-out) report, together with a signed inventory and a signed schedule of condition. We have a check-in and check-out inventory, on the same sheet. Neither have been signed by either party. Also what is the 'report' and 'schedule of condition'..is this not the same as the inventory?