BIG problems with Deposit & Inventory

B123_2

Hopefully I am using the correct forum...I am new to this! I have trawled the internet and these forums for a solution to my problem and I am going round in circles. Any info would be greatly appreciated.

I have recently moved out of a property in Reading that was rented on a 12 month contract with one other tenant. We required a guarantor for this property. It was managed by the letting agency, and we had no contact with our Landlord.

I have lived in rented properties with the other tenant for some time, and we have been stung severely by a LL failing to secure our deposit properly within one of the schemes. We were subject too holding tactics by our LL for weeks after leaving the property, only to find that they had not secured our deposit. Letters, legal aid, and a court order later, the LL disappeared without paying the now three-fold money we were owed (thousands). Two solicitors at the time advised us that, given the difficulty there is in enforcing the scheme, we should consider withholding the last months rent at any future properties.

In the property in Reading we experienced many problems with the agents, and their breaking of the contract etc. Though, they did secure the deposit. When the final rent was due, after much discussion, we decided to withhold the monies. We were certain that no further costs could be claimed from us, and all our bills were in order. I know, it is not the best course of action but we did see it as a way of avoiding the stress caused in previous lets. WRONG!

When we moved in we weren't happy with the inventory so amended it and returned it for them to counter-sign, under the assurance that we would receive a copy. We chased them for this many times, but it never arrived.

They never sent any correspondence about the arrears. However, just over a week after moving out, they contacted us and asked us to pay up. We asked them to take this out of the deposit, which exceeds the monthly rent. After a few days we were told that this was not possible, as they estimated that the whole of our deposit was owed for damages. Our deposit is a considerable amount of money. They have visited the property before and nothing was ever mentioned.

We disputed this claim based on our amended inventory, and damages caused by work they had carried out on the property. This work was due to faults with the property. The said the points we raised were "irrelevant".

Despite us still being in correspondence about this, they have charged ahead with contacting the guarantor. This took the form of a telephone call where the guarantor was reminded that they know where he works, and where he lives. He was also told that we had disappeared and were not in contact. They insist that the rent arrears and the damages are two separate issues and are not both linked to the deposit dispute. They also told the guarantor that it is the rent they are chasing him for, not the damages.

I have been unable to find out how long the guarantor remains the guarantor? We moved out 2 months ago. Also, is this method of contact usual? I am quite concerned about this considering we are STILL in discussion with the agent.

I am also unsure about where we stand with the inventory. If they do not provide us with a copy signed by them, I may assume that it has not been signed. If that is the case no inventory has been signed and agreed by both parties? They wont give us the inventory or invoices for repairs. I am also abit confused about their insistence that the rent arrears and damages are separate in relation to the deposit?

When I approach them about these issues they skirt over them and I am finding it really difficult to resolve. At the moment I do not have the funds to pay all that they ask for, and I am really worried about the prospect of courts being involved and then further added cost. However, to avoid this it seems I have to just pay anything they request. Please…any advice at all would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

Cannon_Fodder

Talk to the deposit scheme, they will have arbitration processes to resolve, or at least try to, disputes.

Without an agreed exit inventory, they are on a sticky wicket, I suspect. But you need to deposit scheme to inform them of that.

All your dealings need to be in writing, so they cannot later wriggle out of anything verbal.

clutton_2

a deposit is for "breaches of the tenancy agreement" and can be used for damages and unpaid rent

depending on the wording of the guarantors agreement, s/he will be responsible for breaches for both reparis and rent - and i have never come across any time frame for ending this responsibility . Just becaue you have moved out does not alter the fact that these breaches are in dispoute and the guarantor is still a guarantor.

the fact that they are lieing to the gurantor, saying that you have gone missing, must mean that they are onto a sticky wicket and they know it. you must keep meticulous records of every conversation, text, email etc.

Until they can produce a list of repairs and estimates of the cost of repairs it will be difficult for them to take you to court - as they have to have a quantifiable amount that they allege you owe them if they take out a claim against you.


May i suggest that you read Eagerlearners threadf on here (set aside 3-4 hours to do so) where you will learn how to get a deposit back from a Very tricky landlady

The onus is on them to prove you owe the money - it is not up to you to prove you dont - they have to have a properly signed and agreed inventory on move in and on move out if they are to claim damage.

B123_2

Hi, thanks for the advice. I have been finding it so difficult to find info about the process that this must take, whilst there is also a guarantor involved. I guess each case varies and the info available doesn't always give a straight forward answer. Every link I take tells me to contact Citizen's advice, who then say contact a solicitor. I tried to find other cases involving these agent's also...seems the only info on the web is supplied by them. No good reviews, no bad..and they are nationwide.Odd.:think:

The LL/Agent's haven't been in contact for days, despite my efforts to discuss the matter with them further. This in itself is as worrying as the bullying tactics they have been employing!

Will be contacting the TDS today, and see where that takes me. I just worry that any information about alleged damages is held by them, and the inventory, and we obv don't have anything in writing to confirm the amount of people who had to attend to the property whilst we were there.

I will indeed have a look at that thread aswell. Honestly, thanks so much. Will keep you posted!

Colincbayley

Prescribed information for the purposes of section 213(5) of the Housing Act 2004.

When the deposit was protected within an approved scheme a section 213(5) Prescribed information form should have been issued.

This will list all the circumstances when a deduction from the deposit may be made.
IF when reading this it doesn't say anything about unpaid rent, then they CAN NOT take it from the deposit.
It doesn't however stop them pursuing the tenant and/or garentour for the unpaid rent outside of the scope of the deposit protection scheme.

If no section 213 notice was issued then they can not deduct any monies from the deposit at all.

B123_2

Colincbayley wrote: »

Prescribed information for the purposes of section 213(5) of the Housing Act 2004.

When the deposit was protected within an approved scheme a section 213(5) Prescribed information form should have been issued.

This will list all the circumstances when a deduction from the deposit may be made.
IF when reading this it doesn't say anything about unpaid rent, then they CAN NOT take it from the deposit.
It doesn't however stop them pursuing the tenant and/or garentour for the unpaid rent outside of the scope of the deposit protection scheme.

If no section 213 notice was issued then they can not deduct any monies from the deposit at all.

Ah, thank you. Never heard of this. Would this be given as a seperate document and be signed, or be written into the contract we signed?

I don't have the contract on me at the moment but will check. I have looked through this before, and have not found anything in writing about rent arrears not being able to be deducted from deposit. It's obviously the first place I looked. So, I would think that prehaps the Section 213 wasn't included.

I know that we only have a contract, and the Cert of Tenancy Reg for the TDS. In my new tenancy they gave us some documents from the TDS to explain the deposit process. Pretty basic info mind. We didn't get this from the agents we are having trouble with. I have contacted the TDS today, and I am waiting for the call back.

Colincbayley

B123 wrote: »

Ah, thank you. Never heard of this. Would this be given as a seperate document and be signed, or be written into the contract we signed?

I don't have the contract on me at the moment but will check. I have looked through this before, and have not found anything in writing about rent arrears not being able to be deducted from deposit. It's obviously the first place I looked. So, I would think that prehaps the Section 213 wasn't included.

I know that we only have a contract, and the Cert of Tenancy Reg for the TDS. In my new tenancy they gave us some documents from the TDS to explain the deposit process. Pretty basic info mind. We didn't get this from the agents we are having trouble with. I have contacted the TDS today, and I am waiting for the call back.

Certain bits of info must be given to a tenant under the 2004 housing act.
Terms and conditions of the deposit protection scheme and prescribed information ( also known as a s.213 notice ) This prescribed information will give full details of when deduction may be made from a deposit. To be honest if they have issued it then they would have been pretty daft to have missed non-payment of rent off of it. Also, as said above, it wouldn't stop them then pursuing non payment of rent, just that it can't be taken from the deposit.

Point to note, if they have not protected the deposit and/or have not given the prescribed information then they are in breach of the 2004 housing act with regards to protecting deposits and the full consequences that may then be brought upon them.

If you are really stuck and want a 'Blank copy' of a 213 notice to refer to, then drop me a PM with your email address and I'll send one over.

B123_2

Sounds interesting. I want to get home now so that I can check the contract! I did do a little googling before and found what I think it should look like. If I get stuck though I will PM you.

The whole thing is just so confusing. I am really grateful for the advice .. my many weeks of reading information has not brought this s.213 notice to my attention.

I am still waiting for the TDS to call back. I am not sure if the dispute process through them is affected by having a guarantor. I am also STILL waiting to hear from the agents about my request for repair receipts. What a mess!

Colincbayley

B123 wrote: »

The whole thing is just so confusing. I am really grateful for the advice .. my many weeks of reading information has not brought this s.213 notice to my attention.

It's only us really boring !!!!!!s with nothing else better to do all day that know these things!:D

Hope it all gets sorted for you soon.

B123_2

Colincbayley wrote: »

It's only us really boring !!!!!!s with nothing else better to do all day that know these things!:D

Hope it all gets sorted for you soon.

:rotfl:Well I am glad that you know these things! My current approach of sending very eloquent letters has resulted in vicious threats of bailiffs. Just words! I could do with something more substantial to hurl at them. Just hope that contract says what I need it to say!!

terra_ferma

I don't know much about deposits as I don't deal with them, but I know that they can take your/your guarantor to small claims court for rent arrears and they can send the bailiffs.
I don't know if the court would take the dispute about the deposit into account.

All I want to say is don't take for granted that the rent and deposit are part of the same issue.
There is no dispute about the rent, you owe it and that's it.

(I have had problems with deposits too, and have resorted to withhold the last month's rent, so I understand why you did it).