Not a parking fine, but a smoking fine?!

pippitypip_2

As suggested by another poster, I've posted here in case I might get a better idea of my rights and to whether this is enforceable, but originally posted in the Praise, Vent & Warnings forum too.

>>>

I heard a few people got on the spot fined yesterday (by plain clothes officers on behalf of the Canary Wharf Estate, not usual security) for not smoking in the designated areas in Canary Wharf. I don't know how much etc but I don't understand how that can be enforceable, considering it's not against the law to smoke outside.

:eek:

Any thoughts, legal or otherwise?

many thanks,
pippitypip

Reggie_Rebel

Thought not legal, if they flicked the cigarette away could they have been done for littering?

pippitypip_2

Thanks Reggie - I'm pretty sure the fines are for smoking outside a designated smoking area (not many and not signposted clearly) and not for littering butts..

Everyone seems to think the Canary Wharf estate (private property) can do whatever they want but surely the fines aren't enforceable?

I mean I work in Canary Wharf and security are telling us so we can avoid it but what if you're joe bloggs coming up here to shop, pop outside the mall for a cig and are fined!

Obviously I'm less concerned about joe bloggs and more about myself lol but when it's raining there is an overhang over the building that complies with UK law (2 sides open etc) but CW management would fine for smoking outside a designated smoking area if you're stood there..

:mad:

pippitypip

sarahg1969

What precisely have you received and who from?

Once we know that, we will be able to assist.

Show us the ticket (all of it).


ETA: - I see you've not received one. Apologies.

It sounds like the private management company has been issuing its own "penalties", which can very probably be ignored. It would be interesting to see what they look like, though.

pippitypip_2

Thanks Sarah,
I really would like more info too in order to know my rights (hence my posting) but I don't want to be the one finding out by receiving a fine!

Will def post more if I can find out anything this end but would appreciate if anyone reading has experienced anything similar to post!

Thanks,
Pippa.

dacouch

I thought this case would interest the parking experts as it sounds like it could be a similar situation to your pet hate the private parking companies.

peter_the_piper

All together now. Its NOT a FINE its an invitation to pay them.

pippitypip_2

peter_the_piper wrote: »

All together now. Its NOT a FINE its an invitation to pay them.

Indeed, that's my suspicion, being an avid MSEr, but no-one else (outside MSE) seems to believe me and we're all running scared half a mile away to the nearest "designated smoking area". However that's bound to wear off as soon as it starts to rain again and everyone's wary of being caught.

I'm just not that keen on being the poster girl for this crap! But it's bound to me that ends up being caught and caught up in it all, inevitably I guess :rolleyes:

pippitypip

sarahg1969

http://forum.sydenham.org.uk/viewtopic.php?p=30387&sid=b967d08d91a05097476e57bb56cc6f25

We have been advised by Canary Wharf Management Limited, that on the 23rd September, Tower Hamlets will be targeting the following areas in the Canary Wharf estate, to enforce the prevention of littering, including cigarette butts, as well as ensuring people are only smoking in designated areas.

- Jubilee Plaza
- North/South Canada Square Park
- North/South Canary wharf DLR & Colonnades

If you are caught littering, you will be asked for your name and contact details and issued with a fixed penalty notice of £80. If you pay this immediately, the fine will be reduced to £40, if not, you may face conviction for the offence.

There will be 6 to 8 teams of 2 enforcement officers (in branded high visibility jackets), plus one CWML Security Guard, all with ID, in these areas.

Please smoke in the approved areas and use the litter bins provided to avoid committing an offence. Locations can be found via this link http://www.canarywharf.com/estate/cw smoking zones.pdf

If you are caught littering and refuse to give your name the enforcement officers are empowered to take your picture and then follow you back to your place of work in order to obtain your details from your employer, who is obliged to provide these details under law.

sarahg1969

I wonder if they DO have some authority to issued fixed penalties? I guess it's possible.

pippitypip_2

sarahg1969 wrote: »

http://forum.sydenham.org.uk/viewtopic.php?p=30387&sid=b967d08d91a05097476e57bb56cc6f25

We have been advised by Canary Wharf Management Limited, that on the 23rd September, Tower Hamlets will be targeting the following areas in the Canary Wharf estate, to enforce the prevention of littering, including cigarette butts, as well as ensuring people are only smoking in designated areas.

- Jubilee Plaza
- North/South Canada Square Park
- North/South Canary wharf DLR & Colonnades

If you are caught littering, you will be asked for your name and contact details and issued with a fixed penalty notice of £80. If you pay this immediately, the fine will be reduced to £40, if not, you may face conviction for the offence.

There will be 6 to 8 teams of 2 enforcement officers (in branded high visibility jackets), plus one CWML Security Guard, all with ID, in these areas.

Please smoke in the approved areas and use the litter bins provided to avoid committing an offence. Locations can be found via this link http://www.canarywharf.com/estate/cw smoking zones.pdf

If you are caught littering and refuse to give your name the enforcement officers are empowered to take your picture and then follow you back to your place of work in order to obtain your details from your employer, who is obliged to provide these details under law.

You star Sarah, thank you - I'd searched the net everywhere and hadn't found a thing.

So it seems they're flouting things a bit and can only fine for littering (fair enough) and must be wearing uniform - apparently yesterday were in plain clothes.

Thanks,
pippitypip