MSE News: Tory Conference: State pension age could rise early

marklv

bumpoowee wrote: »

What worries me most is that I've read this may apply to men only - why exactly is this? If anything women should retire later as they can expect to live an extra 5 years or so.

I do agree in principle with raising the state pension age though, as somebody who fell just within the 'retire at 68' proposed date it seemed very much a case of the baby boomers again saying 'our pensions need paying for - but not by us'. So the increased date in retirement should be brought forward, 2016 sounds reasonable.

I'm also worried that I actually agree with you on something! Yes, women should not have the advantage of having to wait longer for the pension agre change, but generally I agree with the move to an earlier change date. Infact I wish they could do the change in 2011 - more money would be saved - why wait until 2016?

However, I hope they don't decide to bring forward the changes to 67 and 68 - that would be too much.

bendix

marklv wrote: »

I'm also worried that I actually agree with you on something! Yes, women should not have the advantage of having to wait longer for the pension agre change, but generally I agree with the move to an earlier change date. Infact I wish they could do the change in 2011 - more money would be saved - why wait until 2016?

While I agree with you in principle, it's nice to see that you remain true to form and are extremely hawkish on cutbacks when they don't affect you, but ragingly defensive if your own interests are at stake.

You're 42, right? So of course you support this. It won't impact you a touch will it. In fact, it will mean savings to help ensure your own pension is preserved.

You're a man after my own heart mark. A true died-in-the-wood self-interested materialist. But, of course, I have the moral integrity to admit it.

marklv

bendix wrote: »

I don't know what all the fuss is about. We are not sheep, forced to comply live our lives under the shadow of changing policies.

Quit whining. If you want to retire when YOU want to retire, take control of your life and make your own provision. It's not rocket science.

Oh yeah, easy for a rich plonker like you to say that, but what if you are refuse collector on £15k a year? What planet are you living on?

marklv

bendix wrote: »

Why not? If you have made provision and part of your lifeplan is to retire at 50 (as mine is), why shouldn't they be economically inactive whenever they so choose, so long as they are not a burden on anyone else?

Individual choice. Individual responsibility. It's an alien concept in modern society, I know, but I'm kinda old fashioned.

What you and those like you are totally unable to understand is that people's circumstances are not all the same, they differ vastly. There always needs to be a safety net those whose lives have not worked out well, usually through no fault of their own. You preach individual choice, but for most people this is a totally irrelevant concept - only the rich can truly choose; the rest of us have to accept what is thrown at us.

Oldernotwiser

patchwork_cat wrote: »

I beg to differ about not being told to do anything about it. My grandfather was born in 1899 and he was the most ardent saver for his old age. .

But you had to have spare money to be able to save, which many working people at the time did not.

bendix

marklv wrote: »

Oh yeah, easy for a rich plonker like you to say that, but what if you are refuse collector on £15k a year? What planet are you living on?

Am I rich? Coo, that's nice to hear. I'm glad you know the ins and outs of my financial status.

As an aside, if I have been successful, it's entirely due to my own efforts and I'm prepared state categorically that my background and upbringing was considerably tougher and less privileged than your own.

So don't pull the class card on me, cos you will lose hands down.

marklv

bendix wrote: »

Am I rich? Coo, that's nice to hear. I'm glad you know the ins and outs of my financial status.

As an aside, if I have been successful, it's entirely due to my own efforts and I'm prepared state categorically that my background and upbringing was considerably tougher and less privileged than your own.

So don't pull the class card on me, cos you will lose hands down.

Well, maybe that's the problem. You sound like an Alan Sugar type who came from a background that he now resents. This is the problem with working class people who become wealthy - the resentment and bitterness never goes away; the realisation that genuine 'class' can't be bought with money, but pride in having succeeded in moving out of the mire.

I'll be honest: I didn't have a materially tough upbringing, but I didn't go to public school either. I would categorise myself as from a lower middle class background, but I don't resent those poor who are like that for reasons outside their control - I knew people like that at school. Similarly, I don't like toffs such as the daddy's boys who drove themselves to university in the MGs that daddy bought them for Christmas. I remember those people too.

Thatcherism never caught on with me, but neither did the sort of ideas that Tony Benn advocates. In summary: I don't need to prove my virility by being extreme or a tough b***ard. No need for this.

patchwork_cat

Oldernotwiser wrote: »

But you had to have spare money to be able to save, which many working people at the time did not.

Yes, but every penny available went for his old age. My mum resented him for life for it!

Harry_Powell

marklv wrote: »

What you and those like you are totally unable to understand is that people's circumstances are not all the same, they differ vastly. There always needs to be a safety net those whose lives have not worked out well, usually through no fault of their own. You preach individual choice, but for most people this is a totally irrelevant concept - only the rich can truly choose; the rest of us have to accept what is thrown at us.

Ah, the old "I didn't have the opportunity to make something of myself. It's everybody else's fault but mine" argument. Valid in our Grand Parent's day but not in ours. Some people at my school went onto University, some people went onto prison and the rest fell somewhere in between, we all had similar backgrounds. People find their own level in life based on their self belief, ambition and work ethic.

bendix

Lol . .there is nothing so heartwarming as being patronised by those who have made virtually no progress in their lives.

Thanks marklv. You've made my day.