Laptop claim - damage from overheating...

BombJack

Hi folks,

my laptop is knackered. It's a long story, however the upshot is that the retailer who sold me it isn't honouring a supposed 2 yrs manufacturers warranty. The problem which the laptop shows first reared it's ugly head about a month before the end of the 1 yr back to base warranty which came with the machine. I phoned up the company then to explain the porblem (ie it wouldn't go past the POST screen on boot up). Whilst I was on the phone to their engineer, my girlfriend decided to boot up the machine, and voila it worked. The engineer told me that as it is now working, it probably doesn't need returned. I said I was worried that as I only had 1 month left of the warranty I should send it back but he said "don't worry, it has a 2 yr manufacturers warranty" which, in the event of the problem showing up more persistently would mean I could still send it back and get the repairs done. My only cost would be the shipping of the laptop back to the retailer.

In the forthcoming year, I subsequently noticed, that whenever I moved the laptop, (ie took it round to my mates in a backpack I bought for it) the problem would reoccur, and after a while it would remedy itself as long as I left it, without moving it.

I know it's a laptop, and your supposed to be able to move it - however I had already lost some time using it as the motherboard went belly up after 6 months - then it was returned and repaired under the warranty.

To be fair I probably should have returned it sooner than I did, but anyway, a few weeks ago which would have been around a month before the "manufacturers" warranty expired, I decided to put it the backpack and take it round to my mates, to test it out. It hasn't worked since.
Subsequently I have phoned the retailer up, explaining my position. However this time I have been told that the laptop does not have a 2 yr manufacturers warranty, and that the engineer I spoke to previosuly made a mistake. After several heated exchanges, they still won't honour the fact they made a mistake, and fix the machine, even though I would have returned it a year ago when the problem initially occured.

Cutting to the chase - the upshot of all this is that a) my laptop is knackered and I can't afford the 330 quid they are saying it is going to cost to replace the motherboard (which is again the source of the problem). Plus, I don't necessarilly want to replace the board if it's only going to be needing another repalcement in 6 months time. Off the record, the technical director bloke at the retailer I purchased the laptop from suggested I claim off my house insurance. Maybe this is the best way - thing is though, am I oikely to be able to claim for a laptop with this problem? I've heard of people claiming for machines damaged by water or from being dropped, but not from an over heating issue. Your are supposed to ensure that all fan vents etc are kept free from obstruction, to ensure that overheating doesn't occur. With my machine, this type of hazard hasn't been an issue because I've been conscious of not obstructing the airways. However, could I claim under these grounds? A little white lie?

The laptop has always concerned me in terms of it's heat output. It is a Pentium 4 chip installed, with an 800 FSB. Essentially it's a desktop chip in a laptop. Desktop chips invariably produce more heat than their laptop counterparts. Like I said the heat from the laptop has always concerned me - after a while it is really hot to the touch - you couldn't leave your hands resting on it for any length of time without feeling pain from the heat.

So - all in all a complex issue. Any opinions/ides/thoughts?

Cheers

BombJack

Astaroth

Ok.... first of all..... read the manual/ gumph that you got with the laptop as it will confirm the length of the warrenty the manufacturer gives you - if it is under manufacturers warrenty then send it back to the manufacturer (rather than the retailer).

When exactly did you buy the item? How much did you pay for it? How did you pay for it?

Have a look at the link below which outlines your rights under the latest consumer protection law:
http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/c_goods.pdf
Basically if you bought the item after 31 March 2003 (when the law came into force) then you have legal redress against the retailer if the item dont not last as long as would be considered "reasonable". The problem with these kinds of laws is what is reasonable - it is supposed to factor in the type of item and to some extent the price paid for it (you would expect a pair of £100 trainers to last longer than a pair for £5). Personally I would say any laptop should last at least 2 years even if it is a budget model but at the end of the day it would be down to the judge (if it got that far).

If you bought the item on your credit card (not debit) and the company wont play ball under the consumer rights aspect your card company may take up the fight on your behalf. Likewise if you have legal expenses cover on your home insurance they will firstly be able to give you advice (there may be case law now on the lifespans of laptops) and secondly may take up the case for you if they feel you have a fair chance of winning.

As to committing fraud - firstly, if the insurer catches you out you get loaded to a national database of fraudsters and therefore can more or less kiss goodbye any chance of future credit for 6 years and potentially have your current credit withdrawn meaning you have to pay it back immediately. It also shows on your credit file and more and more employers now check credit references so you may have job difficulties too for 6 years.

Secondly - you will have an excess to pay, probably in the region of £100, you will lose your no claims discount and will have your premiums loaded for the next 3-5 years - personally for £220 it doesnt seem worth it but you can do the math and check for yourself

Thirdly - home insurance does not cover malfunction, as standard it is only fire/ theft/ storm etc and none of the standard risks would cover your situation. If you had accidental damage cover what would you claim? you didnt read the instructions and so covered up the vents? that would be seen as not take due care and a continous action so wouldnt be covered. That you dropped a piece of paper behind it and for the 3 seconds it took you to recover it the vents were blocked and it caused it to overheat - seems more than a little far fetched?

Regards

Ast

BombJack

Astaroth - for arguments sake, what's the difference between dropping a laptop in the bath, and accidently covering up the vents. I dare say in the manual it will say it's not recommended to drop your laptop in the bath as well. Could it not be accidental damage too with this kind of situation? I mean, say for instance your niece or nephew is playing games on it, and decides to leave it switched on, lying it on your bed, or couch, where the duvet cover blocks the vents underneath. Could this not be construed as accidental damage?

BombJack

angeleyes

I have also had this problem 2 weeks out of man gur the laptop cos £700 so a year for me is not a reasonable lenght of time for this to happen.
took it up to pc world along with a monitor from them that had also broke (guess what yes 2 wks after man guar expired)
the man there said couldn't do anything - i explained about it supposed to last a reasonable amount of time but it is very complicated to take them to court as first it has to be shipped to holland(where packard bell are now) at our cost then they have to look at it and see if they have had a problem with them (what do you think the answer will be) if nothing found we would then have to pay for an indepant engineer to look at this again and then take them to court ...... by the time we have paid all that we may as well have bought a new one...

so I phoned coverplan (the extented warranty) and was advised that I could still take out the warranty at the cost of £13.99 pm for each computer get the paperwork and then claim ... so guess what i am doing

PC worlds sucks !!! never again!!!!

Astaroth

BombJack wrote:

Astaroth - for arguments sake, what's the difference between dropping a laptop in the bath, and accidently covering up the vents. I dare say in the manual it will say it's not recommended to drop your laptop in the bath as well. Could it not be accidental damage too with this kind of situation? I mean, say for instance your niece or nephew is playing games on it, and decides to leave it switched on, lying it on your bed, or couch, where the duvet cover blocks the vents underneath. Could this not be construed as accidental damage?

BombJack

The difference is that if you drop it in the bath (accidently) and take it out "straight away" (say 5 seconds for arguements sake) it will not work. Block the air vents on a laptop for 5 seconds by accidently covering them up and the laptop will still work.

Covering the vents would have to be done for a long continuous period of time and the damage it causes would be gradual - insurance for accidental damage excludes any contuous damage (the classic being a leaking pipe) rather than a "big bang" and secondly you get into the grounds of not looking after your property properly (a requirement of the policy) if you state that you left the pc running for a month with it leaning against the sofa.

The other problem you potentially have is that a laptop is supposed to have heat based cut off points - if these havent worked then you the cause of the problem is a fault with the item not the piece of paper (due to the chain of causality) - if these havent been set/ set too high by the manufacture you have a manufacturing flaw which isnt covered by the policy - if you have altered the settings then you havent looked after your property properly.

Short of poor claims handling (assuming an accident had really happened) I personally couldnt see any insurer paying out on this one. Plus in your case trying to get them to pay out would be fraud.

BombJack

Hmmm. I'm not convinced. Whose to say that you are going to be able to uncover the vents after 5 secs. What happens if your nephew leaves it on the bed for a few hours without your knowledge? That is surely accidental. Or would that come under the "not looking after your property" umbrella? Likewise it could be your daft wife or girlfriend that was to do it. Still the same deal? Seems a bit crazy to me...

BombJack

Astaroth

But then you get into the 2nd part... why didnt the safety feature kick in and shut down the laptop when it got too hot?

Both my laptops monitor the mobo, cpu and g.card temperature and give a warning when it gets to a certain temperature and does an emergency shut off when it gets to another. Both these temperatures I can change if I so desire.

BombJack

Hmmm. So I'm knackered then. Basically...
Anyone else got any opinions (no disrespect Astaroth - much appreciated btw...)

BombJack

Astaroth

No problem - I have a lot of theory experience with home claims but only a limited amount of practical experience.

The sales of goods act is still a valid option but it isnt easy to do. (subject to when you bought it)

mara

Sorry BombJack but I have to agree with Astraroth. I work in household claims & from what you've said, the laptop is faulty which is not something which is covered under a home policy. The retailer is basically asking you to commit fraud by trying to claim under your household policy. It could be worth checking your cover & if you have legal expenses, giving their helpline a call as they may be able to help pursue a claim against the engineer.