Fireplace misselling

Pssst

OK so National Grid attended as a result of a soot fall.

NG are only required to make a visual assessment as to the condition of the installation and as to whether the products of combustion are being safely conveyed to the outside and that there is sufficient air for combustion. In effect,if the appliance were operated,could it potentially or actually pose a risk to life. They will always err on the side of caution.

Are we saying that the soot is falling down the chimney or are we saying that the soot could possibly be being generated from within the appliance as a result of say,poor adjustment or assembly? Is it a faux log/coal type fire or a plain radiant job? If faux coal/log,then positioning of the firebed,coals is often critical to ensure correct operation. Incorrect placement can sometimes lead to excessive soot generation.


In the instructions for installation,it will no doubt have said that the chimney must be swept b4 use. You have had this done. It is surprising that this hasnt solved the problem.

Flue fitted-i think you mean that it is advised that a flexible flue liner be installed. Like this stuff.

http://www.fluesupplies.com/index.php?cPath=23

The installation manual will advise what diameter is required. If you end up having it done,you might save £££ by buying it direct yourself and having it fitted.

If the installer took all reasonable steps to assess the suitability and condition of the flue at the time of installation and post installation,he made all relevant checks to satisfy himself that the flue was working as it should,then he has done all that he can reasonably be expected to do and has fulfilled his obligations under the GSIUR.

You could have the installtion independantly assessed. That would cost more. It depends if you think there is mileage in it?

Other than that,the supplier might be pursuaded to make a gesture of goodwill/partial contribution?

sco0ter

Pssst wrote: »

OK so National Grid attended as a result of a soot fall.

They attended because of the old fire burning with an orange flame. They advised when the fire was inspected to have the soot problem investigated Before we had a new fireplace fitted as they said there could be an issue with the chimney. All this was told to the company

Pssst wrote: »

Are we saying that the soot is falling down the chimney or are we saying that the soot could possibly be being generated from within the appliance as a result of say,poor adjustment or assembly? Is it a faux log/coal type fire or a plain radiant job? If faux coal/log,then positioning of the firebed,coals is often critical to ensure correct operation. Incorrect placement can sometimes lead to excessive soot generation..

The soot problem was discovered BEFORE the fire was fitted and we told the company of this and requested they checked the Chimney to see if a flue would be needed to prevent this. The soot is continually falling down from the chimney

Pssst wrote: »

In the instructions for installation,it will no doubt have said that the chimney must be swept b4 use. You have had this done. It is surprising that this hasnt solved the problem.

This was done AFTER they installed the fireplace as we were told by the company that this would solve it. It didnt.

As for instructions, we dont have any. the gas fitters have also refused to give us a reciept even though they have been asked 7 times and told to do it by the Ombudsman.

Pssst wrote: »

If the installer took all reasonable steps to assess the suitability and condition of the flue at the time of installation and post installation,he made all relevant checks to satisfy himself that the flue was working as it should,then he has done all that he can reasonably be expected to do and has fulfilled his obligations under the GSIUR.

But how does that go if they have admitted we asked for a specific test and they just didnt do it. Are they allowed to say that the test would be done at the pre instalation then just not do it and blame us. When the ombudsman called them and told them what was happening with the chimney, that we were waking up every morning with soot lying all over the place inside the fire (the same as we told them before we bought the fire except as there was no fire they were told the soot was lying in the hole where the fire would have to go) they told them that we definately needed a flue. Why could they not tell us this or say we should have it checked?

See the problem I think is the fact the MIL gave a specific budget for ALL the work including any chimney work. It looks like the just left the chimney work as they would have got less money because MIL would have went for a cheaper fire and therefore as they are "not chimney experts" they would have had a lower sale so they decided to chance it.



HERE is the fireplace she bought

Pssst

First of all take a look here..
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si1998/98245104.htm#29

See section 29. Possibly a minor point but if they didnt leave you all the installation and servicing instructions then that isnt right. Of course they will deny.

Having looked at the type of fire, the problem is that that flue is wide open to the room and so anything that falls down inevitably ends up in the hearth.

There are a number of ways of addressing this.

1)go for the full flue lining install
2)Get the chimney swept again,more thoroughly possibly with a camera inspection.
3)Put up with it and hope that it lessens over time.

Unfortunately with a more conventional inset fire,the soot isnt a problem as it just collects behind the fire and is removed at service.

The thing about quite a few of these hole in the wall type fires is that they are often made by manufacturers who are not mainstream in the UK market. Often made in other countries.


I googled to try and find its source but couldnt find anything.

I did spot one other retailer who on his hole in the wall fire page, has a paragraph which warns of occasional soot falls on this type of fire and advises that this can be completely avoided by the use of a gather hood and 5" liner !

Did they fit an air vent?

sco0ter

Sorry for not getting back sooner...

As far as I am aware they came in, made the hole bigger to accomodate the fire. Put it in did a smoke test and left. There also has been issues with falling mortor as well. As for the instructions/books being left, this was part of original claim along with a reciept not being issued and we were supposed to get it sent out (it never arrived surprise surprise)

The fire fits flush onto the wall but when you look inside it is hollow so even though it looks like it would run flush with the wall there is actually a gap. This means that there is a 2 inch gap between the old existing wall (and wallpaper) and the front of the fire. behind the wallpaper should have been wall but they didnt finish it so all the mortor has fallen out over the past 11 months and we are left with the front of the fire then a 2 inch gap then a thin sheet of walpaper hanging down (still with some mortar attached) and then into the inside of the fire. We were supposed to get this fixed and the company agreed but now the Ombudsman has told them of thier decision they have said it was only cosmetic anyway and now refused to finish it off.

We were never told of any avoidance methods for falling soot despite us asking for them to check the chimney for exactly that problem

I have been in contact with Consumers direct and now it has been reffered to Trading standards as this has gone as far as Cd can take it. They however say that there is a lot Trading Standards can do before we look at the Small Claims Court