AXA Elevate Pension Investment Account

dunstonh

however when I look at the IFA/Elevate charges for the first year I would need a return of at least 3% on the investments just to cover these charges

Why not go to a fee based IFA then?

and thats not counting what the various Elevate Fund Managers will charge.

Elevate is just a platform. It also can have a post RDR compliant charging process now which can make it quite a bit cheaper.

When I asked my IFA what return I could expect in todays market at our initial meeting he told me he could not say, giving me the impression that he may be open to miss selling if he told me and for some reason I did not get this;

The IFA is correct. You are asking for a crystal ball prediction and no-one has that. You know what long term averages are and what sort of potential different investments have but it is dangerous from a compliance point of view to say what you will get.

I have been trying to find out how current users of the elevate platform rate the product and if they have any reservations/reccomendations?

I was a little negative towards it but if its on the post RDR style charging method where everything is explicit then its quite good. Platforms are generally much the muchness so its features and charges that are key. Not investments.

progers885

Thanks for replying, much appreciated

dunstonh wrote: »

Why not go to a fee based IFA then?

THE IFA is charging me £250 initial consultation fee; he reckons that it will take 15 to 20 hours to set up at £125per hour. he will also charge 0.5% administration charge per year with a yearly review fee of £250.

You know what long term averages are and what sort of potential different investments have but it is dangerous from a compliance point of view to say what you will get.

Thats just it I don't know what the long term averages are hence my question to the IFA, I understand the position the IFA is in however this is catch 22, as far as I know I have to use a FA to access my pension funds, yes I know this is a very complex market and I need specialist advice, however I am expected to have that expert knowledge in order to understand the advise thats been given??

looking at this simplistically when I see that the yearly fees are about 50% of what I want to drawdown gives me cause for concern hence my question to find out if my investment return is remotely likely to cover the yearly fees, Where would I find what the long term averages are http:?? in laymans terms if there is such a web site.

Thanks again

feesarefare

progers885 wrote: »

THE IFA is charging me £250 initial consultation fee; he reckons that it will take 15 to 20 hours to set up at £125per hour. he will also charge 0.5% administration charge per year with a yearly review fee of £250.

For what its worth ( as an Elevate user) it should only take 1.5 to 2 hours to set up. Its all online so very quick and simple.

Are you being charged a flat rate of £125 per hour as that is quite high for what is basically an administration task?

If its for contructing a portfolio as well then ask what specific investment qualification your IFA has and what process he employs when putting together a portfolio.

Thats just it I don't know what the long term averages are hence my question to the IFA, I understand the position the IFA is in however this is catch 22, as far as I know I have to use a FA to access my pension funds, yes I know this is a very complex market and I need specialist advice, however I am expected to have that expert knowledge in order to understand the advise thats been given??

There's no reason why your IFA cant give you ballpark longterm averages - assuming hes an investment specialist?

looking at this simplistically when I see that the yearly fees are about 50% of what I want to drawdown gives me cause for concern

Me as well. Did you discuss just purchasing an annuity?

progers885

feesarefare wrote: »

For what its worth ( as an Elevate user) it should only take 1.5 to 2 hours to set up. Its all online so very quick and simple.

The IFA is basing this on previous customers he has moved to the Elevate Platform taking between 15 and 20 hours, he has to contact the two holders (AXA and Scot Eq) of my 4 pension pots etc. etc

Are you being charged a flat rate of £125 per hour as that is quite high for what is basically an administration task?

he charges administration at £50 an hour I will ask how much of the 15-20 hours is administration.

If its for contructing a portfolio as well then ask what specific investment qualification your IFA has and what process he employs when putting together a portfolio.

There's no reason why your IFA cant give you ballpark longterm averages - assuming hes an investment specialist?

be nice if he did....

Me as well. Did you discuss just purchasing an annuity?

Yes we did but annuity rates are pathetic at the moment since I don't need a big tax free lump sum and I have other income the phased drawdown sounded like the best way ahead to give me a small income

I should say that I have used this IFA for the last 14 years and have found him dependable, I am just concerned that I placing a big pot of money into a product that looks to be right for me but is relatively new on the market and from my web searches I cannot find anyone who is singing its praises or for that matter anyone who has encountered problems, couple this with the fact that the FSA has put so many restrictions on IFA's about what they can and cannot say to customers, If labour were still in power they would probably have invented another level of advisor to explain to the man in the street what the IFA is reccomending with another set of charges for him to pay. It is little wonder why my son is so reluctant to put money away for retirement...

My apologies for my rant, I just get sooooo frustrated

Thanks for your reply

feesarefare

progers885

I can understand your frustration, but to be honest I think your IFA is a major contributor. Although you have been with him for 14 years it appears he has been unable to articulate clearly the benefit to you of using the Elevate platform.

Its not uncommon as many advisers are currently "wrapped up"(lol) in moving their clients to platforms to streamline their own business and reduce their administration while making it easier to extract trail fees going forward. In doing so they have overlooked what, if any might be the benefit for the client.This can then lead to confusion /suspicion/frustration more for the client, which may be unfounded.

The Elevate platform is as strong as any other wrap provider- it has the financial backing of AXA. As Dunstonh has already confirmed, platforms are much of a muchness so its features and charges that are key - Elevate has pretty much all of the bells and whistles.

The charges you are paying are your IFA's charges not the platform charges, so thats where you need to focus your attention- as has already been mentioned in this thread you could probably achieve what you are looking for more cheaply via a personal pension.

dunstonh

I just took another look at the AXA Elevate charges and to be honest, I can't see how an IFA could justify using them over the alternatives unless it's a significant value where the discounts apply.

Pick a managed fund with a retail AMC of 1.5% and that fund will be 1.85% on like for like basis on AXA Elevate unless you start going into high 6 digit values.

So, on that basis, I would ask any IFA recommending AXA Elevate as to why you, the client, should pay extra over the alternatives. What are you getting for it?

feesarefare

dunstonh wrote: »

I just took another look at the AXA Elevate charges and to be honest, I can't see how an IFA could justify using them over the alternatives unless it's a significant value where the discounts apply.

What system were you using? I did a comparison using adviser asset on Monday and the Elevate figures were incorrect.

Pick a managed fund with a retail AMC of 1.5% and that fund will be 1.85% on like for like basis on AXA Elevate unless you start going into high 6 digit values.

Agreed, especially where a proper fee is charged for the advice that is linked to the amount of work and not the percentage invested.

So, on that basis, I would ask any IFA recommending AXA Elevate as to why you, the client, should pay extra over the alternatives. What are you getting for it?

Agreed, however I would add that this question should also be asked of any adviser using any other platform as well

dunstonh

What system were you using? I did a comparison using adviser asset on Monday and the Elevate figures were incorrect.

I wasnt using a comparison system. I was just reading their their unbundled and bundled charge options and looking solely on the basis of charges.

It just seemed mightily expensive. Although, that was disregarding the features that some may use and feel they are worth paying for. However, I don't personally put much weight on most of those.

however I would add that this question should also be asked of any adviser using any other platform as well

Thats more or less a mandatory requirement anyway. An adviser not doing that is leaving themselves open to future reviews or complaints. Although we both know that some firms use a designated platform to benefit themselves rather than the client.

progers885

Thank you one and all for the feeback,

I am now giving serious thought to going for a Hargreaves and Lansdown Vantage SIPP and paing their fee to initially set up the plan and tracking it myself with a view to paying for their advice as and when I need it

dunstonh

I am now giving serious thought to going for a Hargreaves and Lansdown Vantage SIPP and paing their fee to initially set up the plan and tracking it myself with a view to paying for their advice as and when I need it

That will probably work out more expensive in the long run. Cheaper than Elevate but more expensive than the alternatives. HL's SIPP keeps all the trail commission that IFA would be paid. So, effectively, you are paying for something with HL that you wont be getting (i.e. advice). If you then want advice from HL they will charge you a further amount on top of that. Whereas many IFAs would treat the trail as covering their costs.

If you went fee based with an IFA with trail rebated, that would be cheaper or you could use an IFA with no trail rebated but no future servicing charges.