Is EMA Fair???

Oldernotwiser

The solution for many colleges is to allow a certain number of sick days a term (two is quite common) before deducting money from EMA. This seems to me to be a reasonable compromise.

ultimatedingbat

mumps wrote: »

I only have one left at school and he is 17. If he is unable to go to school I have to phone the school with a reason. The school have never questioned the reasons I have given. Maybe it makes a difference that EMA isn't involved. When I am dealing with payroll I have to accept a self certification from staff if they are off sick for up to a week and pay appropriate SSP, I don't see why it should be any different. If we believe staff are taking time off without a genuine reason it is a disciplinary matter.

I can't refuse to accept self certification forms from all members of staff because some might be dishonest.

Personally it has always made me laugh said sick notes issues. I was 18 in my second year at college and even at 18 I had to get my parents to sign for trips. One day my parents flat out refused to sign it saying it was ridiculous.

My personaly favourite occasion was at age 18 when I organised a doctors appointment that I had to have time off college for, that my mother knew nothing about, and the college refused to take my note despite the fact that at age 18 I am legally an adult.

rev_henry

ultimatedingbat wrote: »

Personally it has always made me laugh said sick notes issues. I was 18 in my second year at college and even at 18 I had to get my parents to sign for trips. One day my parents flat out refused to sign it saying it was ridiculous.

My personaly favourite occasion was at age 18 when I organised a doctors appointment that I had to have time off college for, that my mother knew nothing about, and the college refused to take my note despite the fact that at age 18 I am legally an adult.

That really really annoys me as well. Same at my school. If I'm adult enough to CHOOSE to attend surely I'm adult enought to let myself go on trips etc. Our school also has a few silly rules about pupils cars, going to the pub at lunchtime (not allowed, even though teachers often take upper 6th formers at the end of the year) and a ban on having cigarettes on one's person, even at age 18 (compare that to my gf's college where they actually provide smoking shelters!). Although having said this barely any are ever enforced and I can kinda see where they're coming from.

Could you not have just got a note from the actual Doctor about the appointment?

percymoneysaver

have been away from this forum for a while and it's really interesting to see what's been said in the meantime. just thought I should weigh in to say at our college we do accept parent sick notes, or phone calls, as authorising an absence for EMA, but we log all absences and if there's a pattern emerging - for instance regular absence on Monday or Friday - we'll call the student in and stop their EMA if we have reason to doubt it. Otherwise, we generally always pay for illness as long as they've attended a reasonable number of classes in the week.

Meanwhile, I'd be interested to know what people think of a situation I heard about this week. I have a friend who is responsible for EMA at a different sixth form than the one I work in. A student there turned up this week with an EMA contract. My friend is aware that the student is from a 2 parent household where both parents work full time, and the family income is well over the EMA limit. The parents are not self-employed so cannot be hiding income earned that way. Would anybody do anything about it or would you just grit your teeth and pay the student? As EMA administrators I know it is nothing to do with us whether the people dealing with EMA look at paperwork properly or if students "deserve" EMA or not, we just pay them. But morally? Isn't this benefit fraud?

olly300

percymoneysaver wrote: »

Meanwhile, I'd be interested to know what people think of a situation I heard about this week. I have a friend who is responsible for EMA at a different sixth form than the one I work in. A student there turned up this week with an EMA contract. My friend is aware that the student is from a 2 parent household where both parents work full time, and the family income is well over the EMA limit. The parents are not self-employed so cannot be hiding income earned that way. Would anybody do anything about it or would you just grit your teeth and pay the student? As EMA administrators I know it is nothing to do with us whether the people dealing with EMA look at paperwork properly or if students "deserve" EMA or not, we just pay them. But morally? Isn't this benefit fraud?

Can't you report them anonymously? https://secure.dwp.gov.uk/benefitfraud/

Even you can't as a tax paying citizen it is something to do with you.

rev_henry

I agree with Olly. It is your right and responsibility to report them as a citizen, if not as EMA co ordinator. Not sure if it falls under the DWP's remit, but as its suspected fraud I think Crimestoppers would investigate.

Jojo_the_Tightfisted

rev_henry wrote: »

Yes, I just meant was this in 1995 or 1970?! Bit of a difference.

1992, actually. Not so far away in the mists of time.

Oh, and if we're going to be reporting people for breaking rules, perhaps someone should be reporting the 'friend' who is an EMA co-ordinator for gross professional misconduct in their breach of student confidentiality?

percymoneysaver

Jojo_the_Tightfisted wrote: »

1992, actually. Not so far away in the mists of time.

Oh, and if we're going to be reporting people for breaking rules, perhaps someone should be reporting the 'friend' who is an EMA co-ordinator for gross professional misconduct in their breach of student confidentiality?

Actually, I don't think they are breaching anything. My friend (notice no quotes, JoJo) hasn't told me anything at all about this student other than what I posted above. I couldn't report the student if I wanted to as my friend works at a large college and I don't even know if it's a boy or a girl, and I haven't got a clue whether they are entitled to their EMA or not. There are plenty of posts on these forums like this - and in fact giving far more detail - so I didn't feel I was breaching anything by repeating the story. I was just curious and thought I would post it as the thread is called "is EMA fair" and it seemed to me that a system that allows parents to so easily bend the rules is not fair and I wondered what others thought, and what they would do. I especially wondered what the parents of those who have had to fight for it thought about it.

As to whether my friend should have discussed it with me or not, may be not. But I'm sure almost everyone comes home from work and tells family and friends about things that have happened there, and I'm sure that breaches confidentiality . It's not like my friend said "Joe Bloggs, who lives at 11 Acacia Avenue, is getting EMA by deception"

rev_henry

Jojo_the_Tightfisted wrote: »

1992, actually. Not so far away in the mists of time.

Oh, and if we're going to be reporting people for breaking rules, perhaps someone should be reporting the 'friend' who is an EMA co-ordinator for gross professional misconduct in their breach of student confidentiality?

Wow, that's not so long ago.

Hardly a breach of confidentiality. I wonder how many of said questionable student's friends are thinking the same thing as you; they'll surely also know or have worked out that s/he's on EMA and from a well off unfragmented family.

Jojo_the_Tightfisted

Perhaps the family was not so well off last year? The figures for working families are based upon the previous year's income after all (as you well know) and perhaps the family income was under £20,817 until then?

I think it would be as much a breach of confidentiality for your friend (inverted commas removed as you wish) to get in touch with the Benefits Agency to tell them that her parents appear to be claiming something they are not entitled to as it would be for me, when I was working at a hospital, if I were to contact them to tell them a woman was claiming benefit as a widowed mother when the baby's father was actually someone completely different. It's not right.

And perhaps you feel differently about it, but I would not go home and discuss people's medical conditions with my partner, whether he knew them personally or not. If you were to be a patient anywhere I worked, I am sure you would be quite unhappy if I were discussing your sexual history or your partner's medical condition that they have decided they did not wish you to know about. It's inappropriate and a clear breach of confidentiality, in my eyes. You will also find that the people who have to sign the Official Secrets Act as part of their work in the Civil Service also follow the rules that they have been subjected to as a part of their terms of employment. In the case of the older generation, many take the information to the grave.

I just do not believe it is right.