Is EMA Fair???

Oldernotwiser

rev_henry wrote: »

You can have sick days and still get paid you know. In fact you'll still get paid if you have any AUTHORISED absence, afaik. At least that's how it is at my school, you just have to get a note from parents saying you were ill.

Most schools/colleges have more sense than to believe a word a parent says (even supposing the letter is actually from the parent!). Many students have their parent wrapped round their little fingers and will write anything if it avoids their little darling losing money!

LemonGrove

andyrules wrote: »

Now that's something isn't it? Students who simply cba to study. What hope for the workforce?

Thankfully, there are still some young people who wouldn't dream of skiving off - ema or no ema.

Well obviously, because all people are different. I'm just pointing out how it is whether you like how it sounds or not.

Oldernotwiser wrote: »

Most schools/colleges have more sense than to believe a word a parent says (even supposing the letter is actually from the parent!). Many students have their parent wrapped round their little fingers and will write anything if it avoids their little darling losing money!

Recently when I genuinely was ill, my mam phoned the college about it so that my weeks money wouldn't be lost. However busy lines meant she had to leave a message. While trying to remember everything that the voice requested to be in the message she forgot to say the main thing - the reason for absence. But, I still got my money!

rev_henry

Oldernotwiser wrote: »

Most schools/colleges have more sense than to believe a word a parent says (even supposing the letter is actually from the parent!). Many students have their parent wrapped round their little fingers and will write anything if it avoids their little darling losing money!

Ah yes, this is a point, and I might be one of those many students.

I don't just blatently skive though, and if I wanted to my mum wouldn't write such notes for it; I think the last time I did it it was for my driving test, but only because the headmaster hadn't bothered to reply to a letter asking permission. My form teacher actually told me to just get a sick note. There was also the Monday we ALL had a physics AS exam the following day, but the school in its infinite wisdom wouldn't give us the Monday as study leave (but it gave us the previous week for all the other exams that week) and my teacher basically told us all to be ill. No idea why senior management didn't care about 15 sick notes on the same day from the same class, unless then turned a blind eye as well. Although it was them who decided not to let us have the day for study in the first place.

looby75

Oldernotwiser wrote: »

Most schools/colleges have more sense than to believe a word a parent says (even supposing the letter is actually from the parent!). Many students have their parent wrapped round their little fingers and will write anything if it avoids their little darling losing money!

DD's school will take the parents word when it comes down to illness, but it also takes into consideration the students past sickness record.

There were a group of kids that were unlucky enough to get a really nasty bug in the second week of term, the ones who were entitled to it all still got their EMA as their previous attendance record (from year 11) showed they weren't the kind of kids who skived off. The girl who was removed from the course didn't have such a good attendance record though which is why they didn't mess around, she was given a warning, ignored it so they kicked her off the course (I don't know if she was getting EMA though)

andyrules

LemonGrove wrote: »

Well obviously, because all people are different. I'm just pointing out how it is whether you like how it sounds or not.

Yes, and this highlights one reason why ema, as it stands, is so controversial.

I'm old enough to have parents who had no choice but to leave school at 14, continuing training at nightschool - until war broke out. No ema then, just pride and a strong incentive never to fall on Welfare.

Enabling young people to achieve is something I believe in - strongly. Coaxing them out of their pit with beer money is something I resent paying into. 'Feeling crap and unable to face the day' - that makes me almost wish for FE fees to be introduced, if they had to pay for it then they wouldn't abuse the privilege. But that would penalise those students who do struggle in on no ema because they want to improve.

mumps

Oldernotwiser wrote: »

Most schools/colleges have more sense than to believe a word a parent says (even supposing the letter is actually from the parent!). Many students have their parent wrapped round their little fingers and will write anything if it avoids their little darling losing money!

Mine didn't get EMA but I would have a problem with a school that didn't believe me. Serious breakdown in the parent/school relationship if they adopt that attitude. I have never had a teacher question my honesty and that is with four children who have attended a total of five schools.

Oldernotwiser

mumps wrote: »

Mine didn't get EMA but I would have a problem with a school that didn't believe me. Serious breakdown in the parent/school relationship if they adopt that attitude. I have never had a teacher question my honesty and that is with four children who have attended a total of five schools.

I'm talking about post 16 level, not when children are younger.

You have no idea how many parents will say absolutely anything their children ask of them, right or wrong, even if you wouldn't do it yourself. Students of honest parents get very angry if they refuse to conform to what so many parents do.

bestpud

Oldernotwiser wrote: »

I'm talking about post 16 level, not when children are younger.

You have no idea how many parents will say absolutely anything their children ask of them, right or wrong, even if you wouldn't do it yourself. Students of honest parents get very angry if they refuse to conform to what so many parents do.

I have to agree with this.

Mine know better than to try, but I know of many parents who would write a note for their child.

And teens are brilliant at finding, and utilising, their parents weak spots!

Lots of children have been doing this throughout their school life so they are experts by the time they get to college!

ultimatedingbat

Oldernotwiser wrote: »

The amount of time you spend on a subject is no indication of its academic rigour.

Do you really mean "2 hours of homework per subject per week "? Surely you mean per night?

Apologies I wasnt clear. I could not phyiscally n first year have done 2 hours per subject per night as that would have been a grand total of 8 hours per night, now based on not finishing college till 4 and not getting in till 6 I would have been up till 2am every morning.

It was around 2 hours per night in total. And weekends an average 2-3 hours per subject.

That however was on top of doing the work for the assigjments as well

mumps

Oldernotwiser wrote: »

I'm talking about post 16 level, not when children are younger.

You have no idea how many parents will say absolutely anything their children ask of them, right or wrong, even if you wouldn't do it yourself. Students of honest parents get very angry if they refuse to conform to what so many parents do.

I only have one left at school and he is 17. If he is unable to go to school I have to phone the school with a reason. The school have never questioned the reasons I have given. Maybe it makes a difference that EMA isn't involved. When I am dealing with payroll I have to accept a self certification from staff if they are off sick for up to a week and pay appropriate SSP, I don't see why it should be any different. If we believe staff are taking time off without a genuine reason it is a disciplinary matter.

I can't refuse to accept self certification forms from all members of staff because some might be dishonest.