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MSE News: Number 10 to stop banks dipping into your account?

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  • BeenieCat
    BeenieCat Posts: 6,567 Forumite
    First Anniversary Combo Breaker
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    I too hope something is done about this.

    Someone I know received a Community Care Grant of £600 to furnish a house with her toddler children after fleeing an abusive relationship.

    Barclaycard took this money the same day it was paid into the Barclays account. :rolleyes:
    AND they said the fact it was a grant from DWP mattered not, and only if she could send written proof that the money was to pay rent or martgage would they "consider" paying it back.

    I'm worried about receiving my Surestart maternity grant in case the same happens to me so i will need to go and draw it out the day i receive it.
  • never-in-doubt
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    BeenieCat wrote: »
    I too hope something is done about this.

    Someone I know received a Community Care Grant of £600 to furnish a house with her toddler children after fleeing an abusive relationship.

    Barclaycard took this money the same day it was paid into the Barclays account. :rolleyes:
    AND they said the fact it was a grant from DWP mattered not, and only if she could send written proof that the money was to pay rent or martgage would they "consider" paying it back.

    I'm worried about receiving my Surestart maternity grant in case the same happens to me so i will need to go and draw it out the day i receive it.

    Comm Care Grants cannot be swallowed by debt, i'd check this out.... doesn't seem right (the banks have a duty)..... regards to your situation, why not tell them you do not have an account and to send a giro or use a mates/relatives account details?

    Don't risk it, the banks usually credit/debit at silly oclock (HSBC is 2-4am).... so if the credit went it, an auto debit would occur before you even woke up lol
    :o 2010 - year of the troll :o

    Niddy - Over & Out :wave:
  • BeenieCat
    BeenieCat Posts: 6,567 Forumite
    First Anniversary Combo Breaker
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    Comm Care Grants cannot be swallowed by debt, i'd check this out.... doesn't seem right (the banks have a duty)..... regards to your situation, why not tell them you do not have an account and to send a giro or use a mates/relatives account details?

    Don't risk it, the banks usually credit/debit at silly oclock (HSBC is 2-4am).... so if the credit went it, an auto debit would occur before you even woke up lol

    Not according to Barclays, they said it doesn't matter why the money was there and who put it there, because we all thought the same thing! As it turned out, the money wasn't for rent it was for furnishings, so rightly or wrongly she had to create a short note from "landlord" and fax this to them. Obviously people will say this was a downright lie and wrong etc, but it was the only way.

    Thanks, i didn't realise it would happen that quick, i wonder if making a token payment to BC would prevent this - i have ignored them for a couple of months and need to start a new CCCS dmp...
  • jambosans
    jambosans Posts: 1,493 Forumite
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    Sol00 wrote: »
    I agree, but the point is the bank should notify the customer beforehand to give them a chance to sort their finances out. Simply because the bank own the account and the customers' money is in there does not give them the authority to dip into the account as and when suits them.

    If you're in arrears, do you actually think the bank would make no effort to contact you before offsetting? On top of phone calls, letters and statements, offsetting is normally a last resort from examples I've seen.

    Just to quote Lloyds TSB's revised terms and conditions which come into effect at the end of October:-
    We can use our set-off right, where you have accounts which are only in your name as well as joint accounts you hold with another person (X) as shown below:
    ... We will tell you at least seven days before doing this unless we reasonably think you will move your money to stop us.
    Anything I post is my opinion, so from time to time I may be wrong. I try to provide answers based in fact, however I don't know everything, so (like all posters on MSE), take what I say with a pinch of salt.
  • natweststaffmember
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    jambosans wrote: »
    If you're in arrears, do you actually think the bank would make no effort to contact you before offsetting? On top of phone calls, letters and statements, offsetting is normally a last resort from examples I've seen.

    Just to quote Lloyds TSB's revised terms and conditions which come into effect at the end of October:-
    At what is the terms today?
    I have not worked for NatWest Bank since February 2009

    This username is no longer active.
  • never-in-doubt
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    jambosans wrote: »
    If you're in arrears, do you actually think the bank would make no effort to contact you before offsetting? On top of phone calls, letters and statements, offsetting is normally a last resort from examples I've seen.

    Just to quote Lloyds TSB's revised terms and conditions which come into effect at the end of October:-

    But this part of the terms would always win: Yet again the banks ripping us off with little terms that cover them
    ... We will tell you at least seven days before doing this unless we reasonably think you will move your money to stop us.
    Basically they assume every1 will move the money, of course if you're in debt you'll move it and the banks know this!
    :o 2010 - year of the troll :o

    Niddy - Over & Out :wave:
  • jambosans
    jambosans Posts: 1,493 Forumite
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    But this part of the terms would always win: Yet again the banks ripping us off with little terms that cover them Basically they assume every1 will move the money, of course if you're in debt you'll move it and the banks know this!

    Yes, but as I've said on previous posts, offsetting is not something that happens straight away. Normally speaking, the bank will contact you if an account has fallen into arrears to arrange repayment. If a customer makes no attempt to put arrangements in place to repay said arrears, then I do not have an issue with offsetting.

    Also, before responding, I am strictly talking about genuine debts - not disputed debts.

    If the first thing a bank did was offset before contacting the customer in any respect, then of course I do not agree with this practice or condone it. However, from experience, I have known this not to be the status-quo.
    Anything I post is my opinion, so from time to time I may be wrong. I try to provide answers based in fact, however I don't know everything, so (like all posters on MSE), take what I say with a pinch of salt.
  • jambosans
    jambosans Posts: 1,493 Forumite
    edited 28 September 2009 at 1:29AM
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    At what is the terms today?

    This question does not make sense. Did you mean, "And what are the terms today? If so, they are pretty much the same, you can read them yourself (by clicking the link at the bottom of the page), but just to quote the existing terms and conditions in regards to setting-off:-
    30.1 If any money you owe us (for example on a loan, credit card, mortgage, overdraft or otherwise, under the Lloyds TSB brand or another brand) is overdue for payment, we may use any money in any of your accounts with us to reduce or repay (by way of set-off or otherwise) what you owe us.
    30.2 We can also in the same way (unless prevented by insolvency law) use money in any of your accounts with us to reduce or repay any money you owe to another Lloyds TSB group company, which is overdue for payment.
    30.3 We may exercise our rights in conditions 30.1 and 30.2 by using: (a) money in accounts in your sole name or the same joint names to pay anything you owe jointly; or (b) money in accounts in your sole name or your joint accounts to pay anything you owe in your sole name, but we will only do this to pay your personal debts, and we will tell you at least seven days before doing so unless we reasonably think you will move your money to stop us. (This does not affect express or implied rights to use money between accounts under any other agreement you may have with us.)

    And just to re-quote the full new terms and conditions (valid from 30/10/2009) in regards to offsetting:-
    17.1 If any money you owe us (for example on a loan, credit card, mortgage, overdraft or otherwise, under the Lloyds TSB brand or another brand such as Cheltenham & Gloucester) is overdue for payment, we may use any money in any of your accounts with us to reduce or repay (by way of set-off or otherwise) what you owe us.
    17.2 We can use our set-off right, where you have accounts which are only in your name as well as joint accounts you hold with another person (X) as shown below:
    *in this section there is a table highlighting the ways in which they can offset between sole and joint accounts - I unable to copy and paste*
    We will tell you at least seven days before doing this unless we reasonably think you will move your money to stop us.
    17.3 In addition, we can in the same way (unless prevented by insolvency law) use money in any of your accounts with us to reduce or repay any money you owe to another company with the Lloyds TSB name, Scottish Widows plc or one of their associated companies.

    As you will see, the new terms and conditions are not significantly different to the old terms (in regards to setting-off).

    Apologies if that is not the question you actually asked. If it was, I assume you asked it thinking the new T&C's updated the old ones in relation to setting-off, as you can see, they haven't.


    Also for anyone wanting to have a read I've linked to both documents below:-

    Lloyds TSB - Personal Banking terms and conditions. Current version, in use today (28/09/2009).

    Lloyds TSB - Personal Banking terms and conditions. Applicable from the 30th of October 2009.
    Anything I post is my opinion, so from time to time I may be wrong. I try to provide answers based in fact, however I don't know everything, so (like all posters on MSE), take what I say with a pinch of salt.
  • Nathan_Spleen
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    jambosans wrote: »
    If you're in arrears, do you actually think the bank would make no effort to contact you before offsetting?

    You answered this question yourself with a resounding 'yes' by quoting the Lloyds term that expressly allows them to do this.

    ''We will tell you at least seven days before doing this unless we reasonably think you will move your money to stop us.''

    The seven day notification term hinges on you second guessing what the bank is second guessing on what you might do.

    Not exactly clear and transparent is it? And I'd bet a cotton chomping dollar that the term would fall foul of UTCCR on at least 2 counts.
  • louiser123
    louiser123 Posts: 1,248 Forumite
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    i have to agree with martin im afraid, i dont think banks should have any right to dip into any other account you may have with them to cover costs for debts.

    each account is a total separate entity and should remain that way. if someone is in debt then the banks should follow the same process as every other creditor, from what i can gather by responses on here it seems that it is totally fine for them to do what they want, and in that same vein should we then be expecting the companies we have loans or other debts with to be able to do the same?

    its a case of lets just give everyone we have a debt with, ie loan, mortgage, credit card ect a debit card and access to our accounts and basicly take what you want when you want.

    i know there are people who owe money and have tons sat in another account, my view on this in the current climate is good luck to you because the nine times out of ten the debts with the banks are caused by extortionate charges which led to the debt in the first place.

    banks are a law unto themselfs and need some real regulation and watching because at present they have more power than any government and can make or break someones life in an instant.
    self confessed 80's throwback:D
    sealed pot challenge 2009 #488 (couldnt tell you how much so far as i cant open it to count it!!:mad: )
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