Debt & christian ethics

bookseller1980

'Talent' is any skill that you can contribute - making tea, mowing the lawn, fundraising etc.

mogchops

What a great thread.

I too am a regular churchgoer, and my DDs too, they love Sunday club, and elder DD particularly has a strong faith in God and Jesus. I am a firm believer that everything happens for a reason, and that God only gives us challenges that he knows we can deal with.

I also feel sometimes that there is another force at work, something that is trying to hinder my progress, and throw obstacles in my way. A few months ago I was going through a very stressful time, was off work, & suffering with nervous tummy. One Sunday morning we were getting ready for church, and my tummy was playing up, I was almost in tears in the car & ready to turn round and go home again, but I carried on & we got there. And the service that day included some amazing music and singers and was so uplifting it moved me to tears (of joy this time!) I was so so very very glad I had got there. But it was like something was trying to stop me, iyswim?

We are in debt, but we are dealing with it, and managing it, and knowing that God is on my side is a great help.

TWINKLE

angelflower wrote: »

HI OP

thanks for your post. i am on here a lot and dont discuss my faith very often but it plays a huge part in my life and in how i think about and how i deal with my finances.

Firstly, www.capuk.org are one of the most amazing organisations I have come across in terms of helping people in debt. You definately dont have to be a christian to access their services, the name is the reason they do it, and nothing else. CAP work in the same way as the other 2 big free debt advisor agencies often discussed on this board but come with the added support of a support worker, access to free holidays, cloth stores, help with shopping costs etc. If you are experiencing financial difficulties, please contact them. If you dont need the services of their debt remedy, but would value some help in organising your finances, try www.capmoney.org to see if there is a course in your local area. I help run these in the Edinburgh area and as you will see from my sig, am in debt so we are definately not there to preach to anyone.

Secondly, the issue of tithing is one that you should probably discuss with people in your own church. I am personally not in a position to pay a 10% tithe at the moment and go through periods of guilt at this but then just have to not let it get me down.

I also pay small amounts to 2 charities I support every month including sponsoring a child. These serve me as a constant reminder that despite my own debt and at times abject poverty, I am rich compaired to others. It helps the focus.

Money is mentioned in the bible more than just about any things else. It does talk about not borrowing, not lending (but giving) and many other things but what I have realised that as long as you are putting your focus on money, either the act of trying to obtain more, or worrying about the lack of, you are denying the power of God.

My favourite verses when I am particularly down about my current state is

19"Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. 20But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moth and rust do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal. 21For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.

22"The eye is the lamp of the body. If your eyes are good, your whole body will be full of light. 23But if your eyes are bad, your whole body will be full of darkness. If then the light within you is darkness, how great is that darkness!
24"No one can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and Money. Do Not Worry

25"Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or drink; or about your body, what you will wear. Is not life more important than food, and the body more important than clothes? 26Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they? 27Who of you by worrying can add a single hour to his life/SIZE][URL="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+6&version=NIV#fen-NIV-23310b"][SIZE=1]b[/SIZE][/URL][SIZE=1?
28"And why do you worry about clothes? See how the lilies of the field grow. They do not labor or spin. 29Yet I tell you that not even Solomon in all his splendor was dressed like one of these. 30If that is how God clothes the grass of the field, which is here today and tomorrow is thrown into the fire, will he not much more clothe you, O you of little faith? 31So do not worry, saying, 'What shall we eat?' or 'What shall we drink?' or 'What shall we wear?' 32For the pagans run after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them. 33But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well. 34Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.

I could testify time and time again about the promises made in the above for I have experienced Gods provision over and over and at my darkest days.

Angelflower - well said - I'm glad Little Vic started this discussion, I have been v encouraged by all of the advice given in this thread.

TWINKLE

Little_Vics wrote: »

oh believe me - I give more than my 10% of time!! We're just in an elderly congregation of about 60-odd with only 7 of us working and able to help financially. We're just figuring out what to do.

I agree about charitable donations - we have a sponsor child and get so much joy from recieving the letters.

To be honest, I'm glad I'm not the only one in this boat so thanks heaps to all for commenting! Can we keep this going as an extra support group?

I hope we can keep this thread going Little Vic - I've got so much out of the comments. Sometimes the reality is that the support isn't available within our churches and to be honest, could we trust everyone with our personal information anyway? This is a safe support method.

Little_Vics

Completely agree that support isn't always to be found at church. OH and I have decided that next time the subject of giving financially comes up we're going to tell our pastor, but not beforehand. Off to church now - hope everyone has lovely Sundays!

Paulgonnabedebtfree

Little_Vics wrote: »

Completely agree that support isn't always to be found at church. OH and I have decided that next time the subject of giving financially comes up we're going to tell our pastor, but not beforehand. Off to church now - hope everyone has lovely Sundays!

As a confirmed heathen, I'm afraid I sometimes work on Sundays. Not much to do today though so I've been worshipping at the altar of the one-eyed, square headed god in the corner of the room (TV set)

*zippy*

Great thread OP..thankyou x

I would love to join you for some support please. I volunteer for CAP too, but still feel too embarrassed to admit the amount of debt we have to anyone for the fear of being judged.

Little_Vics

hey guys, haven't checked in for a while and wondered how you were all doing?

Batfink

I've just re-read this thread, and some of the lovely posts within.

There is a lot of mention of tithing, which is one of the big things that pushed me away from Church. I just cannot rationalise it with all the good things that come out of churches - nor, from my understanding of God, can I understand such a command having come from him.

It's almost like 'I love you, unconditionally, and all I ask is that you love others - and give me your money'. It just does not fit. I had someone I know preaching at me this week (I use the word 'at' intentionally) about how heaven will be full murderers and rapists that have given their lives to Jesus, but 'good' people will still be in hell. At the time I avoided a confrontation - but, again, I cannot see the faith and belief in a God who would cast eternal damnation on someone for failing to pick the correct, out of many, religions to follow.

Anyway - I've gone off topic, but thanks for getting me thinking about it!

x

Useless_with_wonga

*zippy* wrote: »

Great thread OP..thankyou x

I would love to join you for some support please. I volunteer for CAP too, but still feel too embarrassed to admit the amount of debt we have to anyone for the fear of being judged.

Thats interesting as I too felt that way until fairly recently. However having faced up to "our" problems I no longer feel ashamed. We have tackled the issue head on. Yes we are still in debt but in 18 months the problem has almost halved. There have been sleepless nights and constant worry along the way but now I find myself being quite open with people about it.
I am happy to admit the amount that we owed and the amount we still owe. I have found it quite liberating to be upfront about it.
No one has judged us, well not to our faces anyway and what they discuss behind our backs I'm not really too bothered about.
By being open about it I have found that it takes the pressure off lots of situations like Birthdays,Christmas,going out for a meal/drink etc, people know what the situation is and don't expect nor push us unwittingly beyond our means.
In addition we have found that lots and lots of people are in a similar position and some have even asked for advice and guidance knowing that we have been/are going through it. I suppose the fact we are no different removes the embarrassment from them declaring thier own problem/s and asking for help/guidance.
There is no need to be embarrassed,We are all human and that is why we make mistakes.
I alway recall an old saying that goes "He who has not made a mistake has not learned anything" I think that is most apt and sums up the horrible situation of debt problem/s.
God does indeed work in mysterious ways and there is in my opinion a reason for everything even if we don't understand the reasoning (yet)