does anyone understand free funded nursery placements?

Janepig

jackomdj wrote: »

Janepig - how come your DD went to school in the Sept after she turned 3? Youngest DD is 3 in March but won't start until the Sept after she turns 4, so she gets a year & a term funded.

There's afew schools in this area now that do this - basically they have one intake in September for all the children who turned three from the previous September to the August. And all start full-time straight away (8.30am-2.45pm). DS has just started there 3 weeks ago and there are 67 in his year - it's one big classroom split into two halves. They're split on age, roughly Sept-March with one teacher and March-August with another, which makes sense because DS is in the older half and some of his friends are already 4.

Obviously it's not everyone's cup of tea, but it suits me (and the 66 other sets of parents!) and DS couldn't wait to start after 3 years of accompanying me to drop his big sister off there. I couldn't be faffing about with part time, and the LEA did try to get the school to change to this afew years ago and the parents voted unanimously to continue with the current situation and as it's a hugely oversubscribed school I guess there's not many detractors. I think you needed to be a Californian lawyer to work out how they wanted some full-time, some afternoons, some mornings, depending on their birthdays. I couldn't work it out!

There's a shedload of NNEB's and LSA's in the class too and all they do is play and generally get used to the school setting. DS adores it. Give him afew years though and I'm sure he'll be fed up with it, just like DD is!! Once the hard work kicks in :rolleyes:.

Jxx

flea72

jackomdj wrote: »

Janepig - how come your DD went to school in the Sept after she turned 3? Youngest DD is 3 in March but won't start until the Sept after she turns 4, so she gets a year & a term funded.

alot of schools are now seeing the money available to them, if they start taking children as soon as they are eligible for nursery funding (roughly £2k per child + other 'expenses'). But unlike pre-schools, who can only claim on the number of children who actually attend, a school can claim money based on the number of children they could physically accommodate, whether that amount of children attend or not (kerching!)

the children arent actually classed as being at school, the school is just taking over the role of nursery/pre-school

Flea

jackomdj

Janepig wrote: »

There's afew schools in this area now that do this - basically they have one intake in September for all the children who turned three from the previous September to the August. And all start full-time straight away (8.30am-2.45pm). DS has just started there 3 weeks ago and there are 67 in his year - it's one big classroom split into two halves. They're split on age, roughly Sept-March with one teacher and March-August with another, which makes sense because DS is in the older half and some of his friends are already 4.

Obviously it's not everyone's cup of tea, but it suits me (and the 66 other sets of parents!) and DS couldn't wait to start after 3 years of accompanying me to drop his big sister off there. I couldn't be faffing about with part time, and the LEA did try to get the school to change to this afew years ago and the parents voted unanimously to continue with the current situation and as it's a hugely oversubscribed school I guess there's not many detractors. I think you needed to be a Californian lawyer to work out how they wanted some full-time, some afternoons, some mornings, depending on their birthdays. I couldn't work it out!

There's a shedload of NNEB's and LSA's in the class too and all they do is play and generally get used to the school setting. DS adores it. Give him afew years though and I'm sure he'll be fed up with it, just like DD is!! Once the hard work kicks in :rolleyes:.

Jxx

Thanks for replying! Sounds like a good idea, although it would not work for me as I need longer hours on some days (I work Mon & Tues). My eldest has just started school (she will be 5 in Oct) & they have their first full day on Thurs, until now it has been a week of afternoons, a week of mornings & half a week of long mornings. She will be glad when she is in full time!

Sarahlou_2

Hi

I've experienced two different situations. My DS (now in reception 4 years old)went to private nusery full time up until 3 years 9 months and the nursery simply deducted the funding off mu monthly direct debit - amounts varied as funding runs with the school terms, so it was cheaper when the schools were in, went up in the summer.

From 3 years 9 months onwards he went to his schools Foundation Stage unit, and did full time (9.00 - 3.15pm) and this was free. Downside? I needed a childminder at the time to do before and after school. So it didn't work out much cheaper! (£440 a month for childminder). But we did it so that he was ready for school and in my opinion he came on a lot further than had we left him in private nursery.

Hope that helps!

SKIPPY

Depending on the area some are only able to claim 12.5 hours a week which can only be taken in 5 x 2.5 sessions.

Changes are being made to increase this to maximum of 15 hours per week, if taken over 3 or more days and 13 hours per week if taken over two days. Changes are also being made to how you can uses these hours.

Up to 10 hours funding could be used on a day with the remaining 5 hours applied to subsequent days and the parents paying the difference.

It all depends where you live at the moment as they are only trialing the above, best to give your local Early Years a call they will be able to tell you exactly what you are able to claim.

CRANKY40

The problem with the free nursery funding is that it is only for school term time, not for every week.

Triggles

DD is going spare with this stuff - in the nursery her DS attends 3 full days per week while DD is at work, the nursery is charging her SEPARATE from the free hours.

For example:

Full day £35
Half day £25

Instead of charging her £35 for the day minus the amount of the free funding, they insist they must bill her for £25 for each of the 3 days as that is the "half day" fee, even though he is there for the full day. Which ends up costing DD more than if they subtracted the free half day fees from the total for the whole day, IYSWIM. It'd be different if she started that way, but her DS has been going there since before he was old enough for the free hours, and they USED to just charge her for the full day, not break it up so they could collect more. :mad: She's had ongoing problems with this place, and I'd like to think at some point she'll realise they're useless, overcharging, and generally not worth the money they're being paid (trust me, long story there!). But when it's not term time, they bill her for the full day.... they insist that is how they are REQUIRED to do it, but I don't believe them. She's a single mum on limited income, so it really aggravates me to see this, but I'm trying desperately hard not to interfere. *sitting on my hands, clamping mouth shut, and hoping she doesn't ask my opinion any more on it!*

ETA: They also do not charge for meal on full days, but do charge on half days - so they charge her for his meal each day during term time as "he is technically on half days" grrrrrrrr

flea72

Triggles wrote: »

Instead of charging her £35 for the day minus the amount of the free funding, they insist they must bill her for £25 for each of the 3 days as that is the "half day" fee, even though he is there for the full day.

depends on how you view it

the nursery can only claim per session, so if your GS went 5 days a week, they would use funding to pay £8 per day (38wks of the year) towards the fees = £27 per day to pay (termtime)

you state your dd is only having to pay the half day rate of £25 (plus lunch £?)

however the nursery do seem to be working their invoices a bit odd for people whose children attend p/t - it just seems odd to not charge for mornings at all, then charge half day rate for the afternoon, seeing as they are not allowed to use the full funding allowance of £16 a day, to pay for just the morning session

i just wonder whether the nursery work their invoices, so you pay the same each month? this would mean you look like you are paying more for each session, than you really are? as funding only covers 38wks of the year

Flea

madnessandmayhem

The funding is for 15 hours a week, from the term after they turn 3 (eg DS 2 will be 3 in may so won't get funding until september and will get 3 terms orth, DS1 was a feb birthday so got 4 terms worth) but my understanding is that you can ony use a max of 6 hours worth in a day-someone i know has her daughter in a day nursery and it will only use 6 hours per day. The main playgroup here do sessions of up to 5 hours so you can send your children for 3, 5hour sessions a week and that is coverd by the funding. If where you live there is a limit on how many hours per day can be used from thhe funding thats probably why you end up having to pay extra, and also if the nursery costs are more than th funding will pay. I would speak to the nursery and ask them.

cclarke12

All areas will be offering 15 hours per week over 38 weeks in the next year or so. For the moment some local authorities still only offer 12.5 hours per week and even in areas where they do offer 15 hours this does not mean that provider has to offer that many hours (they can still just do 12.5 hours if they want). The entitlement kicks in the term after your child's 3rd birthday (although schools often only take children in during September or the January after 3rd birthday)

The guidance from the Department for Children, Schools and Families (Early Years Code of Conduct??) is that the free 12.5 or 15 hours must be taken over a minimum of 3 days (i.e. you couldn't just use it over 2 days), and that no more than 10 hours should be used in a single day. They try to encourage providers to deliver this flexibly to meet the needs of families and they do not state that provision can only be used over 5 days in 2.5 or 3 hour sessions, e.g. a lot of private/voluntary providers will now offer 3 lots of 5 hours (i.e. over 3 days) if parents want it. Schools still tend to be more traditional and offer 2.5 or 3 hours per day over 5 days. Nowhere in the guidance does it say you have to use it in 2.5 or 3 hour slots over 5 days. It largely depends on what a provider can, and is willing offer to parents.

Some local authorities are trying to incentivise providers to be more flexible by offering them slightly higher funding rates to be so. The problem is a lot of private sector providers are aggrieved as they don’t think the hourly rates paid by the local authority covers the actual cost of delivering the free early years entitlement, particularly if parents aren’t purchasing additional hours on top. For their business to be viable they need to fill as many places for as much of the time as possible, e.g. one full time child is much more viable than 2 children only using the provision for 2 days per week each. Like it not, for many working parents the private sector is the only viable option for childcare because of the opening times/hours they offer.

I think there is confusion amongst providers about how they should apply the free entitlement and how they should charge for additional hours used etc.e.g. a nursery often charges a lower equivalent hourly rate for full-time users versus part-time users, so if they knocked off the 12.5 or 15 hours based on those hourly rates, then the amount they deducted would differ depending on whether my child was part time or full time and some parents would see this as unfair.
My nursery just knocks the actual amount they have been paid by the local authority off the childcare bill each term in a lump sum off one of the monthly bills (my child is full-time). I don’t think this is the way it should be applied but I am not bothered as I know they are giving me all the funding, and it is the simplest way for them to deal with it. The rate paid to providers varies across the country but is in the region of £3 to £3.50 per hour for 12.5/15 hours over 38 weeks of the year (i.e. the academic year)
If you have any questions about how the funding it being applied by your nursery then you should ask the provider and if you aren’t happy then get in touch with the Family Information Service and ask for advice.